1.9 million people and sports team... (Norfolk, Chesapeake: homes, income, living)

[damian]

weren't we talking about Hampton Roads and its possibitities of getting a sports team????

I have to say, I have been around for three failed attempts at a sports team. the late 90s was for an NHL team, 2001/2002 was for an NBA team, and 2004/2005 was for a MLB team. The past two attempts had Norfolk/HR as frontrunners, only to have the teams relocate somewhere else. The NBA team went to New Orleans, which not including Katrina, a smaller population, lower income (talk about poverty and ghetto), and a negative growth rate.
The MLB team that was close to coming here went to DC, which is a no brainer in terms of where a team maybe more profitable. In both of the above mentioned examples, Norfolk was Vused almost as a pawn, before the execs chose other sites. Interesting enough, all three instances used "Norfolk" as the home base for the team, not VB or HR

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by damian

weren't we talking about Hampton Roads and its possibitities of getting a sports team????

I have to say, I have been around for three failed attempts at a sports team. the late 90s was for an NHL team, 2001/2002 was for an NBA team, and 2004/2005 was for a MLB team. The past two attempts had Norfolk/HR as frontrunners, only to have the teams relocate somewhere else. The NBA team went to New Orleans, which not including Katrina, a smaller population, lower income (talk about poverty and ghetto), and a negative growth rate.
The MLB team that was close to coming here went to DC, which is a no brainer in terms of where a team maybe more profitable. In both of the above mentioned examples, Norfolk was Vused almost as a pawn, before the execs chose other sites. Interesting enough, all three instances used "Norfolk" as the home base for the team, not VB or HR

That is because HR has to compete with DC to get sports teams. Virginia has the highest population of any state without a major league sports team. Connecticut managed to get one before HR did. Boston and New York already had hockey teams(not to mention everything else). Hockey is a relatively small market sport. Connecticut managed to get the Hartford Whalers(in one of the poorest major cities in the USA). They lost the team to the Piedmont Triad,NC in the mid 1990's. Hartford had no other markets in New England to compete with for a hockey team. HR has to compete with a bigger DC region. Not only that, it had to compete with a big Piedmont Triad region in NC. The HR region gets passed over for many reasons.

[damian]

The Triad does not have a major league team, the Triangle has a hockey team I think. Virginia is the largest state without a team; yet unfortunately though it is caught between DC and Charlotte, which hinders its chances at a team. NOVA has DC, thus it leaves Richmond and HR. Richmond is an unlikely spot because of its size and proximity to DC. That leaves HR as an only other alternative, yet we have already discussed the prospects already

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by damian

weren't we talking about Hampton Roads and its possibitities of getting a sports team????

I have to say, I have been around for three failed attempts at a sports team. the late 90s was for an NHL team, 2001/2002 was for an NBA team, and 2004/2005 was for a MLB team. The past two attempts had Norfolk/HR as frontrunners, only to have the teams relocate somewhere else. The NBA team went to New Orleans, which not including Katrina, a smaller population, lower income (talk about poverty and ghetto), and a negative growth rate.
The MLB team that was close to coming here went to DC, which is a no brainer in terms of where a team maybe more profitable. In both of the above mentioned examples, Norfolk was Vused almost as a pawn, before the execs chose other sites. Interesting enough, all three instances used "Norfolk" as the home base for the team, not VB or HR

Norfolk is probably the most visible city of Hampton Roads, nationally. Virginia Beach is the biggest city nobody has heard of, and thats mostly because nothing is here, except miles of hotels and overpriced restaurants.

Norfolk is the only city in the area with a real downtown, an imitation skyline, and some attempt at a corporate presence, and that is why its singled out. Virginia Beach is nothing more then a huge Norfolk suburb in most peoples eyes.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

That is because HR has to compete with DC to get sports teams. Virginia has the highest population of any state without a major league sports team. Connecticut managed to get one before HR did. Boston and New York already had hockey teams(not to mention everything else). Hockey is a relatively small market sport. Connecticut managed to get the Hartford Whalers(in one of the poorest major cities in the USA). They lost the team to the Piedmont Triad,NC in the mid 1990's. Hartford had no other markets in New England to compete with for a hockey team. HR has to compete with a bigger DC region. Not only that, it had to compete with a big Piedmont Triad region in NC. The HR region gets passed over for many reasons.

Id almost buy that, except, look how many teams survive in California within a couple 100 miles of eachother? From the Bay Area to San Diego, is about as many miles (maybe a few more) as the swath from Washington DC to Charlotte, and that area in California might have a couple million more people, but it contains 5 baseball teams, 3 hockey teams, 3 football teams (but once supported 4), and 4 basketball teams. DC to Charlotte has 1 basketball team, 2 football teams, 1 baseball team, and 2 hockey teams. Thats 15 vs 6. On top of that, in California, the teams are all the way up the coast. Here, they are mostly in Washington DC, or all the way in middle NC, nothing in between. You mean to tell me, population wise, there isnt room in Hampton Roads for at least a baseball or basketball team? Oklahoma City got a basketball team, and the metro area has about 65% of Hampton Roads population.


The problem isnt the market saturation, its not the fact we have such a transient population. Sports are not viable here because there isnt enough money, enough regional cooperation or enough corporate backing. If the Richmond area wasnt so population deficient, it would actually be a far more attractive place to place a team then Hampton Roads, and that is just plain sad.

[Cyclesucker]

Try to drive from VAB Ampitheater to Langley or back during any rush hour - I've had it take over 2 hours before, 23ish miles! I got tired of it and left.

Norfolk is where the venue would have to be, because it is where most people commute to and work. To have it in VAB would double flood on 264E in the evenings, it's not feasible. I think the area could support a team, and that's why I'm excited for ODU FOOTBALL - it's the closest the area will have so there should be plenty of support. All of the expensive boxes at the Ted have been booked since it openned - corporate funding is available.

Also, picture this - 80k people are in a stadium in Norfolk, downtown is flooded with drunks and bar crowds, ODU has a Football/BBall game, a carrier has just ported, and there is an evacuation of Norfolk for a storm or terrorist attack. Think of what would happen, madness! I suggest working on your infastructure before even considering making it worse and spending gov't funding on a want like a sports team.

"If you build it, they will come" Haha

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by Cyclesucker

Norfolk is where the venue would have to be, because it is where most people commute to and work. To have it in VAB would double flood on 264E in the evenings, it's not feasible. I think the area could support a team, and that's why I'm excited for ODU FOOTBALL - it's the closest the area will have so there should be plenty of support. All of the expensive boxes at the Ted have been booked since it openned - corporate funding is available.


"If you build it, they will come" Haha

The "Ted" and its college sports line up is not major league. The dollars spent on the boxes and advertising arent even a fraction of what would be required for major league sports. That is fortune 500 type money, and if you didnt notice, the area seems to be in short supply of those.

[damian]

If we ever get a ML sports team, it should probably be in Norfolk, even though I live on the Peninsula. Norfolk is fairly accessible to all of HR, VB is just too far, especially if coming from W/burg. the only way they would put an arena or stadium on the Peninsula is if they are trying to tie the Richmond market to HR, like they did for MLB. That way people from Richmond would not have to cross a tunnel to get to the game

[Cyclesucker]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

The "Ted" and its college sports line up is not major league. The dollars spent on the boxes and advertising arent even a fraction of what would be required for major league sports. That is fortune 500 type money, and if you didnt notice, the area seems to be in short supply of those.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to list.... (not all F500)

Stihl
Siemens VDO
Dominion VA Power
Northrop Grumman
Verizon
Ntelos
Norfolk Southern
Landmark (TWC, traderonline)
Smithfield foods
Carmax
MeadWestVaco
Genworth Financial (richmond)
Advance Auto Parts (roanoke)
Dollar Tree stores (Chesapeake)
Amerigroup (VA Beach)
More....

VA has 17 fortune 500 companies - more than CO, FL, GA, IN, LA, MD, MA, NC, or TN who ALL have pro teams.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by Cyclesucker

I was hoping I wouldn't have to list.... (not all F500)

Stihl
Siemens VDO
Dominion VA Power
Northrop Grumman
Verizon
Ntelos
Norfolk Southern
Landmark (TWC, traderonline)
Smithfield foods
Carmax
MeadWestVaco
Genworth Financial (richmond)
Advance Auto Parts (roanoke)
Dollar Tree stores (Chesapeake)
Amerigroup (VA Beach)
More....

VA has 17 fortune 500 companies - more than CO, FL, GA, IN, LA, MD, MA, NC, or TN who ALL have pro teams.

GA has 26 Fortune 1000 companies, 18 based in Atlanta alone.
CO has 15, 6 in Denver
IN has 14, 4 in Indianapolis
FL has 33, 17 of them in cities with pro teams
LA has 4, 1 in New Orleans. New Orleans is not a pro town, and it has mystified a whole lot of people as to why the Hornets went from Charlotte to there.
MA has 22, 5 in Boston
NC has 26, 13 in Charlotte or Raleigh
TN has 21, 11 in cities with pro teams (Nashville or Memphis)
MD has 12, 2 in Baltimore, but MD falls in to the greater DC area

Then you have VA

32 of them, 3 in the whole of Hampton Roads, none of those in the top 200, including a railroad company and Dollar Tree, which have each been "so" active in local sports sponsorships to date........Do you see the difference here? When a city has a huge company directly based in the vicinity, they buy luxury boxes, they buy ad space, throw corporate parties and meetings. General Dynamics in Falls Church, VA, could care less about the Hampton Roads area. They are not going to buy luxury boxes, and they are not throwing a corporate party.

Northern VA, which is home to 16 of the 32 (50%), is probably far more interested in Washington DC teams.

Richmond, which is home to 10 of them, would be a much better choice for a pro team, except, they have such a small population. If Richmond could figure out how to double their population, Id say, outside of Las Vegas, they are probably the most capable of handling a major sports team out of all the cities that dont have one.

Hampton Roads would benefit little to none from the success Richmond and Northern VA have in business. There are not enough major companies with large operations here (such as Northrop or Stihl), to support a pro team.