what price is considered "affordable" rent in Virginia Beach? (Hampton: fit in, credit)

[froggin4colorado]

I hear what you are saying Random, however I still think it is great that those who dedicate themselves to our country and are here to protect my freedom are given that compensation. I believe there has to be some perks to being in the military or many wouldn't join. Right now it is job security and great health benefits. To the young men and women, its the GI Bill and travel opportunities (which many families dread because uprooting a family constantly isnt great.)
Thank you for your father's service and I am glad he was able to spend so much time at home with your family. Today's families aren't as lucky.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by froggin4colorado

I hear what you are saying Random, however I still think it is great that those who dedicate themselves to our country and are here to protect my freedom are given that compensation.

I would agree, if they werent so much better grossly compensated then people who protect us on a daily basis. Maybe its not so much military being overcompensated as it is other civil servants being grossly undercompensated.

Originally Posted by froggin4colorado

I believe there has to be some perks to being in the military or many wouldn't join. Right now it is job security and great health benefits. To the young men and women, its the GI Bill and travel opportunities (which many families dread because uprooting a family constantly isnt great.)

To be fair, the military probably wouldnt have much problem filling the ranks in peace time with far poorer benefits. As long as they offer a better path then criminal enterprise or Walmart, people will join the service.

Yes, if we keep up this never ending mess over in the middle east (or even end up fighting with North Korea), its going to increasingly cost more to keep soldiers. I think thats fair though. Soldiers these days are pretty much guaranteed a trip to the sand box when signing up, and they truely will be risking their lives.

Originally Posted by froggin4colorado

Thank you for your father's service and I am glad he was able to spend so much time at home with your family. Today's families aren't as lucky.

Well, my dad being in the Navy, had the priveledge of six month cruises, so he was still gone for large chunks of time. I think he went on 7 cruises of 3 months or more during his time in the Navy.

Anyhow, thats a downside that is unique to the Navy, and occassionally the Coast Guard. The other branches do not have to deal with such things during peace time.

[Spazkat9696]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

First of all, I am a Navy brat of a retired enlisted man, who spent all but 2 of my 18 childhood years in the service.

Second of all, teaching does not get cost of living adjustments like the military. If they did, teachers would actually be able to afford to live in the cities they teach in.

Third, I dont get where you feel I am "anti-military". However, I believe they are highly overcompensated for what they do. Between 1980 and 2000, there was only a short period of time (Gulf War) where a large percent of soldiers risked their lives. In fact, during that time, most spent pretty much their whole career stateside, behind a desk or fixing equipment.

Why. exactly did they deserve untouchable benefits, including basic housing allowance, while professions such as police officer and firefighter, who actually did risk their lives every day between 1980 and 2000, not get anything even close, and have been increasingly being pushed out of areas they serve?


Finally, I did not "pick my life path". I worked with the cards I was dealt with, which severely limited my "choices".

I think you should join the military, so you can see how hard they work for their money.

I'm a teacher, and I can afford to live in the city I teach. As a matter of fact I just bought a new house. There are programs to help teachers, firemen and police officers buy houses for up to 50% off, so clearly you don't know all of the facts.

I was not dealt a great hand either. Both of my parents were in the navy, so I didn't really get the best deal either. However as an adult at times I worked 3 jobs and went to school part time. I did what I had to do so that I could have the things I have now. Nothing makes me more angry than people thinking everything should be handed to them.

This is not directed to anyone person, one sign of a mature adult is learning that you are the only one who can control your life. You may have been dealt a crappy hand, but only you will be able to change it. You may need to work 2 jobs and go to school, or work 3 jobs to save money. However, only you can change your life. Also no matter where someone lives there will be challenges. We all just have to suck it up and deal with it. As an adult if you don't like your life change it.

[Spazkat9696]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

I would agree, if they werent so much better grossly compensated then people who protect us on a daily basis. Maybe its not so much military being overcompensated as it is other civil servants being grossly undercompensated.




To be fair, the military probably wouldnt have much problem filling the ranks in peace time with far poorer benefits. As long as they offer a better path then criminal enterprise or Walmart, people will join the service.

Yes, if we keep up this never ending mess over in the middle east (or even end up fighting with North Korea), its going to increasingly cost more to keep soldiers. I think thats fair though. Soldiers these days are pretty much guaranteed a trip to the sand box when signing up, and they truely will be risking their lives.




Well, my dad being in the Navy, had the priveledge of six month cruises, so he was still gone for large chunks of time. I think he went on 7 cruises of 3 months or more during his time in the Navy.

Anyhow, thats a downside that is unique to the Navy, and occassionally the Coast Guard. The other branches do not have to deal with such things during peace time.

Not true the Air force goes TDY for 6 months to a year all over the world, The army has hardship (no family) tours to Korea (among other locations) for a year, and the Marines are on the boats with the navy.

[telemonster]

I've worked FOR the military. Some people see combat, some people stand watch over empty buildings.

Is the basic housing allowance taxed? My father looked at the current pay for what his rank was and I think he was a bit surprised. Housing pay, education pay, retirement, medical. Most normal jobs do not have that. You know what you sign up for. It's an adventure. Hell, the death/kill ratio in Iraq is really good.

It's getting to the point in America where the only place to earn wages and secure a retirement is working for the gov't. At some point this is going to break down. If everyone either works for the gov't or lives off the gov't, or lives a life in poverty working for a small wealthy elite (that controls the govt), there are going to be problems. The middle class has to exist to pay for the poor.

It's kind of ironic to hear garbage of "workforce housing." They talk about building "affordable housing" (cheap garbage) for "teachers, firemen, police" (families probably making the median household income for the whole region). They won't address the rapid runup in housing, or that the costs are unsustainable. That it was a bubble that covered true economic issues.

Also, if your going to be out to sea all the time, don't make babies then whine that you can't see them. You know the drill.

The police officers I know don't make crap. I wouldn't want their job. Family member is retired police. Pain everyday of life from dealing with people that are worthless.

[Spazkat9696]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

The only reason they are getting shot at, is because they are at war.

Between 1900 and 2009, the US has been in 6 major conflicts involving a majority of the active duty forces.

WW1 lasting 1 year, WW2, lasting 5 years, Korea, lasting 4 years, Vietnam lasting 12 years, the first Gulf War lasting less then a year, and the Iraq/Afghanistan conflict lasting 8 years.

That is 31 years out of 109 that most soldiers were not simply desk jockies twidling their fingers in their home bases (most on US soil).

109 out of 109 years cops risked being shot at and were in dangerous predicaments.

The difference? It you calculate in pretty much free housing, free health care, and free or reduced almost everything else, even the lowest ranks of soldiers are better compensated then cops who have been on the job for years.

Where do you get free housing? If you live on base you lose the housing allowance, and for those who live off base the housing allowance does not cover all of your expenses. Also the housing allowance is based on your rank, so young military guys get the short end of the stick. Also the health care was not free. I had to pay copays just like everyone else unless I went on base, but there was no space on base for me to be seen. I'm having trouble locating the VA beach police pay scale can you post a link? This is all I can find, and the benefits don't sound much different from the military. One difference is you're fully vested in the state retirement system after 5 years of employment. Where as my husband, who was medically discharged due to an injury in Iraq after 10 years service, gets no retirement benefits.

Benefits
The Virginia Beach Police Department has long been a leader in progressive policing. We are well known for our use of technology, our effectiveness in training and our innovation in approaching crime and quality of life issues in our community.

The Virginia Beach Police Department is committed to providing a safe community and improving the quality of life for all people. We accomplish this by delivering quality police services and enforcing laws with equity and impartiality. In partnership with the community, we reduce crime through public education, prevention, and awareness. In meeting this objective, we demand of ourselves the highest professional standards and dedication to our core values.

Benefits: Choice of several medical insurance plans (City pays 100% of the cost of the most cost effective “employee-only” plan, a value of $5225/year). Dental and legal insurance at group rates. Paid overtime and court pay. Paid vacation and sick leave. 10 ½ holidays per year, including 2 flexible holidays and a birthday holiday after ten years employment. Retirement through the Virginia Retirement System at no cost to employee. Sworn police employees are eligible for retirement at age 50 with 25 years service; vesting in 5 years; mandatory retirement at age 65. Optional deferred compensation program administered by Great West. Life insurance at no cost to employee. Optional long term care and disability insurance programs available. Employee Assistance Program. Tuition reimbursement program. Uniforms/equipment provided. Some special assignments include supplemental pay. For military veterans, the police academy and field training programs meet the requirements for veteran education benefits as an on-the-job training program. For additional information, visit GI Bill Home - (U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs). Recipients of Perkin college loans (after November 29, 1990) are eligible for up to 100% of their loan to be forgiven upon obtaining employment as a police officer. Please visit U.S. Department of Education Home Page for additional information.


I think you really just don't know what the military does if you think they are/were desk jockeys.

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

I think you should join the military, so you can see how hard they work for their money.

1. The military does not work hard at all in peace time
2. I am medically unable to join the service on two counts

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

I'm a teacher, and I can afford to live in the city I teach. As a matter of fact I just bought a new house. There are programs to help teachers, firemen and police officers buy houses for up to 50% off, so clearly you don't know all of the facts.

What program is that, that allows police officers to purchase a house 50% off? I think you are spouting BS.

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

I was not dealt a great hand either. Both of my parents were in the navy, so I didn't really get the best deal either. However as an adult at times I worked 3 jobs and went to school part time. I did what I had to do so that I could have the things I have now. Nothing makes me more angry than people thinking everything should be handed to them.

How exactly is this about your adult hood?

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

This is not directed to anyone person, one sign of a mature adult is learning that you are the only one who can control your life. You may have been dealt a crappy hand, but only you will be able to change it. You may need to work 2 jobs and go to school, or work 3 jobs to save money. However, only you can change your life. Also no matter where someone lives there will be challenges. We all just have to suck it up and deal with it. As an adult if you don't like your life change it.

What the hell does this have to do with the subject at hand?

[Randomdude]

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

Where do you get free housing? If you live on base you lose the housing allowance, and for those who live off base the housing allowance does not cover all of your expenses. Also the housing allowance is based on your rank, so young military guys get the short end of the stick.

Thats funny, because the housing allowance got my very young next door neighbor in to a 200k dollar house, where his wife doesnt work, and they have a young son. I have a college degree, and do not make enough to afford a 200k dollar house. I fail to see where he is getting the short end of the stick. The US taxpayer is picking up the overpriced nature of Norfolk for him, while I, as a civilian, am on my own.

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

Also the health care was not free. I had to pay copays just like everyone else unless I went on base, but there was no space on base for me to be seen.

My heart bleeds that you have to "wait" for free health care or inconvenienced by going on base. I went without health care for 3 years because I couldnt afford that, and the rent.

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

I think you really just don't know what the military does if you think they are/were desk jockeys.

What do infantrymen do when they arent killing? Pick their nose? Mow grass? Do one of many highly unskilled jobs that would be compensated at minimum wage with no benefits in the civilian world? Why should they get paid these wages and benefits in peace time, when they arent risking their lives?

Instead, they get even more compensation if required to go in to combat.

[Spazkat9696]

You're not worth the fight because clearly you are unable to open your eyes and see the truth. My husband was injured in Iraq what does he get nothing. The program is through HUD I just attended a workshop on it. Stop complaining! As for the what they do when they are not in a combat zone. They train, maintain equipment, volunteer at local schools, stand watch, etc. So you have a degree. I have assistants who have degrees making 10$ an hour, but they don't complain. They realize if they want more they will have to actively seek it out. If your degree is not getting you the job you want go to school and get a different degree that will enable you to get the job you want.

[frogbiscuit]

First I am a veteran, and staunchly pro-military.

BUT

BAS and BAH for active duty enlisted personnel in Hampton Roads is $1500- $2000/month, depending upon your rank. Tax free cash to buy your house.

As far as I know, there is no program in Hampton Roads that allows teachers/police officers/firemen to buy houses at a 50% discount. I have heard that in Chicago, in order to get teachers in mixed income developments, but not here.

I am a veteran, my total VA tuition benefits (because there was no war when I was in) were $5400. I used that up in 2 years, and that was 20 years ago. My son and daughter are both in college and their cost (tuition + room and board) at state schools are $15-17,000 per year.

Also active duty military, by way of the Soldiers and Sailors relief act, pay no state income taxes.


I just don't see the argument that military members are not adequately compensated.