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Old 07-02-2009, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 8,766,944 times
Reputation: 2530

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
If WE are not responsible for our own problems and achievements......who is? Must be the weather, eh?
A random series of events is responsible for every single spot we all are in. Period.

Each of us as an individual, can do no better then a certain event, or situation, allows us to. All things in life are capped, and success is not unlimited.

Those who are wealthy, nine times out of ten, got a good hand somewhere along the line, and simply played it well. However, they are no more "deserving" of that good fortune then someone who wasnt presented the same hand.

To put this in real life. Two kids are born, one to wealthy parents, one to poor. Did that wealthy kid "deserve" his life of the best of everything? How responsible is he REALLY, that he got in to Harvard? The only thing he did was simply not mess his red carpeted life up. He made the best of the cards dealt to him.
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Old 07-02-2009, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 8,766,944 times
Reputation: 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
I made 36k last year. I own my own house. I am white and I do vote republican.
Could have called that. Wait, I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
But here's the thing, if you really think that Obama and the left are going to help you your sorely mistaken. This country swaps party power all the time and nothing EVER changes. The left talks about "helping the unfortunate" but nothing EVER changes for the "unfortunate" It's a campaign trick, plain and simple. Both sides have them and both sides use them..every four years its the same old crap from both parties. And looky looky.. nothing changes.
1. You are voting for the Republicans based on promises which align with your beliefs. This is completely independent of the actual performance of those promises.

2. I find it amazing that

A. You call Obama "left wing" when he is nothing more then a right wing welfare capitalist. Mainstream US politics exist completely on the right wing, ranging from welfare capitalism to laissez faire capitalism. Nothing the US has ever come close to practicing resembles the populist, communal, and rejection of private ownership the left actually is.

B. I also find it amazing how you figure that I am an Obama supporter because I reject the Republican views. I did vote for Obama, simply because Ralph Nader and Cynthia McKinney had no chance, and I couldnt stomach McCain and especially Palin. I require someone with an IQ above the level of a chimp at both the President and VP positions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
If your under the illusion that ANY politician cares about you your in for a rude awakening. And that goes for any party, left or right. People can spout off about change all they want.. a politician is a politician. They are in it for themselves and their buddies. The poor will be just as poor at the end of Obama's term as they were when he started. The only way to "change" anything in your life is to work for it. A lesson I learned a long time ago is the fact that nobody is going to help me but me.
Capitalist systems always become "ruled" by the plutocratic oligarchy. You must remove wealth as a factor of respect and power before you can seperate the two. Until then, we are always going to get the same guy in a different skin as our "commander and chief".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
I worked two jobs to earn enough for a down payment on a small townhouse. Lived in it for a few years, sold it and put that down on my first house. I've never made more than 36k. I'm under no illusion that there is a "better place" I've lived lots of places including the DC area and it's all the same just different streets and different faces. The place you live is what you make of it.

So, you are a holdover from BEFORE this area became grossly overpriced to the average civilian citizen.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:03 PM
 
43 posts, read 98,594 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Could have called that. Wait, I did.

Called what? 36k is a far cry from 80k. Politics and race have nothing to do with working hard for what a person wants, but if playing the race/politic card helps you feel better about yourself then by all means play it. But in this day and age it's just an excuse and a tired one at that. It's an excuse used by people too lazy to work for what they want.

At this point you sound like someone who sits around feeling sorry for themselves about what they have in their lives. I can't help you with that. If I want something like a house I formulate a plan and time frame and work towards it, that's all I can do. I don't make much money, I don't come from money so my only option was to pick up a second job and continue to save until I could do it.

I said it in my first post and I'll say it again. I don't expect anyone to help me but me. Things are what they are.. politics, world leaders, economies, housing prices and all the rest of the obstacles that life puts in front of us. You either work around them or stand in front of them and throw a blame game tantrum.

I mean, I'm not trying to be an ass but for someone who is twenty-something, lived in the same area for most of if not all of his/her life, never bought a house or tried to realize your dreams it sure sounds like you've given up before even attempting to better your position in life. It's like you've convinced yourself that it just can't be done and that's sad.

You posted about people donating to your moving fund so you can do it. Well why can't you do it? I take it your employed right? You probably make more than I do. Did you graduate from college? I didn't so if you didn't don't use it for an excuse. If you want to move so bad why have you not gotten a second job? Does it suck? Yeah, big time but it's an end to a means. I made 100-200 a night tending bar and saved. You don't have to do it forever. Save up 5k, pack your car and move to the DC metro area. Stop making excuses and do it. There are a stupid amount of jobs that will easily pay your rent in a one bedroom place. Stay at an extended stay hotel for a few weeks while you find a job and then move into your own place. After that, start saving again until you can you can put something down on your own place.

Seriously man, thousands of people do it every month in the DC metro area. I did IT recruiting all over NOVA, DC and MD and hired many people that just moved to the area and were doing exactly what I said to do while they got established.

I've done exactly what I told you above in three different cities and it's worked out the same every time.

Now you can go ahead and pick apart my post and come up with "facts" you've read here or there about why this won't work and that can't happen, but just remember, their all excuses and an excuse is nothing but a self justification of ones own failings.

Just stop talking about it and do it. And on a side note, I've relocated people to the DC metro area from all over the world. From Telco engineers in India to developers that were tired of research triangle. If you ever decide to man up and do it and need any advice or connections I'd be more then happy to help you.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:42 PM
 
520 posts, read 1,408,562 times
Reputation: 84
You recruited telco engineers from India? Why do you hate America?
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 8,766,944 times
Reputation: 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
Called what? 36k is a far cry from 80k.
That is true, however, income is not the only determinant factor of the standard Republican voter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
Politics and race have nothing to do with working hard for what a person wants, but if playing the race/politic card helps you feel better about yourself then by all means play it.
No it doesnt, I agree. Working hard goes across all politics and race. That isnt the issue here. The issue here is the argument to what extent external factors are responsible for limitations on the results of that hard work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
At this point you sound like someone who sits around feeling sorry for themselves about what they have in their lives. I can't help you with that. If I want something like a house I formulate a plan and time frame and work towards it, that's all I can do. I don't make much money, I don't come from money so my only option was to pick up a second job and continue to save until I could do it.
To afford the average Virginia Beach house, I would need two and half times the job I have right now. Even if I picked up a second part time job bagging groceries (by the way, turns out that grocery stores and fast food joints dont much like hiring college grads for part time teenager jobs. I already tried this on several occassions), it would still not remotely provide me enough money to make Virginia Beach housing affordable to me.

Additionally, my current job requires unscheduled overtime and weekends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
I said it in my first post and I'll say it again. I don't expect anyone to help me but me. Things are what they are.. politics, world leaders, economies, housing prices and all the rest of the obstacles that life puts in front of us. You either work around them or stand in front of them and throw a blame game tantrum.
I plan on working around them, by moving. That doesnt mean I cannot complain about the area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
I mean, I'm not trying to be an ass but for someone who is twenty-something, lived in the same area for most of if not all of his/her life, never bought a house or tried to realize your dreams it sure sounds like you've given up before even attempting to better your position in life. It's like you've convinced yourself that it just can't be done and that's sad.
It cant be done in Virginia Beach, in my profession. I am at the top end of wage for my skill level in this area, and its not even close to enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
You posted about people donating to your moving fund so you can do it. Well why can't you do it? I take it your employed right? You probably make more than I do.
I have a college degree and make slightly less then you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
If you want to move so bad why have you not gotten a second job? Does it suck? Yeah, big time but it's an end to a means. I made 100-200 a night tending bar and saved. You don't have to do it forever. Save up 5k....
I have determined that I need about 13k to safely move. That is moving expenses and at least 6 months living expenses. I am about 60% there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
, pack your car and move to the DC metro area.
I wouldnt move to DC if someone paid me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
Stop making excuses and do it. There are a stupid amount of jobs that will easily pay your rent in a one bedroom place. Stay at an extended stay hotel for a few weeks while you find a job and then move into your own place. After that, start saving again until you can you can put something down on your own place.
No matter the amount of jobs, you still must get one. This is why I have built in six months in to what I need to move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
Seriously man, thousands of people do it every month in the DC metro area. I did IT recruiting all over NOVA, DC and MD and hired many people that just moved to the area and were doing exactly what I said to do while they got established.
Im not saying some people dont move with nothing. It is possible. I could pack my car up right this minute and just drive somewhere. However, Im not willing to accept the chance of starting off worse somewhere else then I am here, and have to spend my first year or two simply digging myself out of the hole I got in moving there. Thats completely illogical to me.

I have no debt, and I own everything I have. I do not want that to change that by making an ill advised, unprepaired, move.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
I've done exactly what I told you above in three different cities and it's worked out the same every time.
Im not saying it cant be done, but Im not willing to take that risk. Its a senseless risk in my opinion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
Now you can go ahead and pick apart my post and come up with "facts" you've read here or there about why this won't work and that can't happen, but just remember, their all excuses and an excuse is nothing but a self justification of ones own failings.
Yep, not being able to walk because of paralysis is certainly self justification for ones own failings.....come on now. The environment around us determines the hand we are dealt, we just play that hand. The hand the environment deals us is a reason, not an excuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
Just stop talking about it and do it. And on a side note, I've relocated people to the DC metro area from all over the world. From Telco engineers in India to developers that were tired of research triangle. If you ever decide to man up and do it and need any advice or connections I'd be more then happy to help you.
Im not thinking about it, Ive long ago made up my mind, however, saving up 13k when my wage barely covers living expenses, is the difficult, time consuming part.

However, I do appreciate the offer of help dispite our philosophical differences. I am looking primarily at Indianapolis, IN, but both Pittsburgh, PA and Philadelphia, PA and Raleigh, NC may still be possibilities.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:50 PM
 
18 posts, read 52,594 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
Called what? 36k is a far cry from 80k. Politics and race have nothing to do with working hard for what a person wants, but if playing the race/politic card helps you feel better about yourself then by all means play it. But in this day and age it's just an excuse and a tired one at that. It's an excuse used by people too lazy to work for what they want.

At this point you sound like someone who sits around feeling sorry for themselves about what they have in their lives. I can't help you with that. If I want something like a house I formulate a plan and time frame and work towards it, that's all I can do. I don't make much money, I don't come from money so my only option was to pick up a second job and continue to save until I could do it.

I said it in my first post and I'll say it again. I don't expect anyone to help me but me. Things are what they are.. politics, world leaders, economies, housing prices and all the rest of the obstacles that life puts in front of us. You either work around them or stand in front of them and throw a blame game tantrum.

I mean, I'm not trying to be an ass but for someone who is twenty-something, lived in the same area for most of if not all of his/her life, never bought a house or tried to realize your dreams it sure sounds like you've given up before even attempting to better your position in life. It's like you've convinced yourself that it just can't be done and that's sad.

You posted about people donating to your moving fund so you can do it. Well why can't you do it? I take it your employed right? You probably make more than I do. Did you graduate from college? I didn't so if you didn't don't use it for an excuse. If you want to move so bad why have you not gotten a second job? Does it suck? Yeah, big time but it's an end to a means. I made 100-200 a night tending bar and saved. You don't have to do it forever. Save up 5k, pack your car and move to the DC metro area. Stop making excuses and do it. There are a stupid amount of jobs that will easily pay your rent in a one bedroom place. Stay at an extended stay hotel for a few weeks while you find a job and then move into your own place. After that, start saving again until you can you can put something down on your own place.

Seriously man, thousands of people do it every month in the DC metro area. I did IT recruiting all over NOVA, DC and MD and hired many people that just moved to the area and were doing exactly what I said to do while they got established.

I've done exactly what I told you above in three different cities and it's worked out the same every time.

Now you can go ahead and pick apart my post and come up with "facts" you've read here or there about why this won't work and that can't happen, but just remember, their all excuses and an excuse is nothing but a self justification of ones own failings.

Just stop talking about it and do it. And on a side note, I've relocated people to the DC metro area from all over the world. From Telco engineers in India to developers that were tired of research triangle. If you ever decide to man up and do it and need any advice or connections I'd be more then happy to help you.
Nice. There are so many chumps who post on this site. I am the child of two hs dropouts and have a wife with a bad case of multiple sclerosis. We are 44 and 42 and have had no handouts from anyone (her parents: 1 enlisted and 1 housewife, but really nice people) and live in a house on wetlands worth $375k. Dumb luck. Maybe. No #itching here though.
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Old 07-02-2009, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 8,766,944 times
Reputation: 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by oduhoo View Post
Nice. There are so many chumps who post on this site. I am the child of two hs dropouts and have a wife with a bad case of multiple sclerosis. We are 44 and 42 and have had no handouts from anyone (her parents: 1 enlisted and 1 housewife, but really nice people) and live in a house on wetlands worth $375k. Dumb luck. Maybe. No #itching here though.

Of course you arent complaining, the dice rolled well for you. Life dealt you good opportunities which you were obviously ok at making positive results out of.
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Old 07-02-2009, 03:08 PM
 
239 posts, read 554,532 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatcher View Post
Ouch! Throwing jabs now? Actually, I'm 35 and my most recent house is my third purchase. Purchased two years ago.

Baby steps my man, baby steps. Started small and worked my way up.

Am I really in the "old person" bracket now?
Hehe, I am almost 32 and sometimes I feel like I am in the "old person" bracket too . I see what you mean by start small and work your way up. But when did you buy your first place? I think what most "older" people don't get is that for someone starting out, this place is very hard to live an average life. You said you make $36K a year. If you were buying your first place now, what would that get you? At 3 times your income, that is $108K of buying buyer (plus whatever you had for a down payment). Do you realize what you would get for that here? The land for my townhouse is appraised at like $85K alone. Even if you did 6 times your income, that is $216K which might get you into a decent townhouse, but certainly not a house in a decent neighborhood, not even close.

So the point is, many who like it here bought before the mania and probably made a killing in equity. If I had made $200K on my house in like 4 years, I would probably say HR is great too.

But let's say that you did not own your house and you could not afford today's prices and you probably would not have any chance to own in the near future. Would HR still be such a great place for you to live? Or would you want to move to another city, one where you would probably make more, the price of houses was less, and one that had more to offer?

Not that a house is the key to happiness, but you get the point. Young people can not afford to live here given house prices and salaries, not an average life anyway. They will move if/when they can.

Randomdude - I know you hate it here and are miserable, but you are lucky. You get to leave eventually. I am stuck here, my wife won't let us move . I will be here forever !!!
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Old 07-02-2009, 06:19 PM
 
18 posts, read 52,594 times
Reputation: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Of course you arent complaining, the dice rolled well for you. Life dealt you good opportunities which you were obviously ok at making positive results out of.
You're right. I just got a break working 2 jobs getting an undergraduate engineering degree and getting a full ride for a masters b/c my undergrad GPA was high. Staying married so we pooled our $ was lucky. No work really, we just ignore each other.

Hanging laundry outside and doing maintenance on our cars and house really didn't influence much. Laying hardwood floors, installing tile everywhere, replacing heater cores and hot water heaters. Oh never mind... just got good roll of the dice I guess.

First house was just off Little Creek Rd in Norfolk. 3BR and 1000 sq. ft. It just got better as time progressed
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
7,754 posts, read 16,455,342 times
Reputation: 9287
Randomdude....granted, there is a certain amount of luck involved in life, and I've admittedly experienced some good luck in my life. What I've seen however, is that the good luck only came into play when I was making a sincere effort to achieve a certain outcome, along with an expectation that I would achieve it. Whenever I got caught up in bitching, moaniing, whining, and complaining about things I had no control over, my good luck disappeared. Good luck, getting a lucky break, was something that only happened to other people. As long as you continue to express an attitude of negative expectation coupled with a sense of powerlessness like you are currently expressing, there is almost zero likelihood that you will attract any lucky breaks into your life.

Henry David Thoreau said words to this effect....It's okay to have castles in the air, now get to work and build a foundation under them. Based on my own experience, it was only when I was diligently involved in building the foundations under my castles, that any good breaks came my way. That may or may not be the case for you too. I sincerely wish you the best in your endeavour to move to a place that will be more harmonious for you. Realize however, for that to happen you absolutely must express a certain level of harmony from inside of you. So perhaps it's time to shift your attention away from all the crap ( which is very real ) that you appear to be so overly focused upon, and start making peace with yourself.
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