Will you ride light rail? (Virginia Beach, Norfolk: taxes, to live, airports)

[cityboi757]

Honestly it seems a couple of you know zilch about crime and being in the "hood." Crime stays in the hood. Thugs don't go on field trips to suburban, "white" neighborhoods to commit crimes. As rtndc said, they neeed to blend in with their surroundings. It's so ignorant to think that thugs will travel from Norfolk neighborhoods to the 'utopian' Virginia Beach you all descrbe in order to commit violent acts. Yeah, Norfolkians may venture out into Town Center or the Oceanfront, but I highly doubt there will be any thugs going there to commit crime. You'll probably see more working class/middle class Norfolk residents from Ghent, downtown, Balllentine, etc. going to eat or enjoy the beach.

[Spazkat9696]

cityboy757 I'm not saying people won't ride. I'm sure some will, but look at the vision lines you posted. No way will most people ride. Most all of VA Beach and Chesapeake are left out. If you ask me here's what will happen. People will vacation either in downtown Norfolk or VA Beach and use the light rail to get to the other while on their trip. That is about the only use I can see for the vision you've posted. Even with that VA Beach is not, I hope, going to approve the light rail. Another thing a lot of us VAB folks live south and north of 264. I don't see any stops for us.

[cityboi757]

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

cityboy757 I'm not saying people won't ride. I'm sure some will, but look at the vision lines you posted. No way will most people ride. Most all of VA Beach and Chesapeake are left out. If you ask me here's what will happen. People will vacation either in downtown Norfolk or VA Beach and use the light rail to get to the other while on their trip. That is about the only use I can see for the vision you've posted. Even with that VA Beach is not, I hope, going to approve the light rail. Another thing a lot of us VAB folks live south and north of 264. I don't see any stops for us.

It seems you may be being a little selfish?

It doesn't go to your house, so the city should't build it?

Wow.

Think about the thousands of people who do live off Virginia Beach Blvd. and 264. Actually, the HRT bus route #20 is the most heavily travelled route in the transit system and it runs along VB.Blvd from Norfolk to the Ocean.

And like I said, the TOD is what helps congestion and sprawl. Bottomline.

[Spazkat9696]

Not selfish. I just think our money would be better spent on silly things like education!!!

[cityboi757]

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

Not selfish. I just think our money would be better spent on silly things like education!!!

There's nothing wrong with thinking that.

But the majority of the cost is footed by the federal and state governments. It's $$ that has already been set aside for transit projects. You can poor more money into schools all you want, but it's not going to bring the economic prosperity, tax base, and local jobs needed for a sustainable city. Give me one metro, with a population over a million, with tons of good corporate jobs and a strong economy that does not have a rail system. Why do you think Charlotte, Houston, Phoenix all have recently opened LRT starter lines? Becasue it's a MUST for a prosperous town.

[Spazkat9696]

Originally Posted by cityboi757

There's nothing wrong with thinking that.

But the majority of the cost is footed by the federal and state governments. It's $$ that has already been set aside for transit projects. You can poor more money into schools all you want, but it's not going to bring the economic prosperity, tax base, and local jobs needed for a sustainable city. Give me one metro, with a population over a million, with tons of good corporate jobs and a strong economy that does not have a rail system. Why do you think Charlotte, Houston, Phoenix all have recently opened LRT starter lines? Becasue it's a MUST for a prosperous town.

Tell that to Norfolk who is about to shell out millions of dollars to cover the cost over runs on top of the 33 million they have already spent. Plus the 1.50 per ride fee will never cover the cost of the upkeep and staff. Actually last I heard the ONLY transit system that made enough money to cover the costs it generates is NYC's. It is just a money pit, and I really don't want my taxes paying for it. If given the option I will vote against it.

[cityboi757]

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

Tell that to Norfolk who is about to shell out millions of dollars to cover the cost over runs on top of the 33 million they have already spent. Plus the 1.50 per ride fee will never cover the cost of the upkeep and staff. Actually last I heard the ONLY transit system that made enough money to cover the costs it generates is NYC's. It is just a money pit, and I really don't want my taxes paying for it. If given the option I will vote against it.

Well, guess we will have to agree to disagree.

A fully functional Infrastructure means roads, bridges, utilities, and transit.

Building roads are more expensive than building light rail and one light rail train can carry the traffic of multiple lanes of interstate.

When an interstate becomes over capacity, there's nothing you can do about it (264 and 64 on the southside cant be widened becasue of all the property adjacent). When a rail system becomes over capacity, you just hook on an additional car.

Every public project is a "money pit." You don't complain about interstates being subsidized, so why complain about transit?

[Emrak]

Originally Posted by Spazkat9696

Actually last I heard the ONLY transit system that made enough money to cover the costs it generates is NYC's. It is just a money pit, and I really don't want my taxes paying for it.

Just a random note. All major forms of transportation are paid by our taxes. Trains would not exist, period, without government subsidies. The only keeping Amtrak afloat is Uncle Sam.

And airlines are even more heavily subsidized. Hampton Roads (and most major metropolitan areas) could never support airports without tax-payer $$$ helping them out. This is something that should be repeated: we would have no planes or trains without tax-payer cash. (and actually, now that I think of it, we wouldn't have any automobiles without that bailout last year)

So the question is not whether or not your taxes will pay for transportation, the only question is how much. I'm sure we could easily pay for it if we stopped paying for Norfolk International Airport and Newport News International Airport. Sounds nuts right? There may come a time when not paying for light rail sounds equally absurd. Just sayin'

[Emrak]

Here's something else to toss into the pot that just occurred to me (dunno if it has already been raised). We all know oil will run out someday. Some estimates say in 20 years, some say 50. Whatever. Someday (brace yourself) we probably won't have cars everywhere like we do now. Heck, most of us probably won't have cars period. Light rail (powered by electricity, not gasoline) may be the only game in town. We might as well get ahead of the curve instead of trying to play catch up as the oil fields start winking out.

[Spazkat9696]

Originally Posted by cityboi757

Well, guess we will have to agree to disagree.

A fully functional Infrastructure means roads, bridges, utilities, and transit.

Building roads are more expensive than building light rail and one light rail train can carry the traffic of multiple lanes of interstate.

When an interstate becomes over capacity, there's nothing you can do about it (264 and 64 on the southside cant be widened becasue of all the property adjacent). When a rail system becomes over capacity, you just hook on an additional car.

Every public project is a "money pit." You don't complain about interstates being subsidized, so why complain about transit?

You're correct the interstates are a money pits. I rarely use them. I think people should live close to their work and shopping.