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Old 12-30-2009, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Key West, FL, USA
100 posts, read 197,829 times
Reputation: 65

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Quote:
Originally Posted by froggin4colorado View Post
Emrak,
I also looked at that link- I'm afraid I don't follow you. I went ahead and looked at Hampton Roads too, but doesn't that only give Hampton Roads? I consider the area here to be one continuous flow of cities for the most part- is there a website that talks about the area as a whole? Hampton Roads, Newport News, Suffolk, Cheasapeake, Norfolk, etc.? It did say the average home price was $162K but when I used a Remax search for homes at that price- it didn't come up with anything. I did get a couple older homes for 175K and it doesn't fit our lifestyle. (We sold our 5 bedroom 2 bath home for 153k in September in CO)
I don't understand why this paragraph was directed at me? I didn't mention anything about housing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by froggin4colorado View Post
I read the posts about COS and all but 2 were positive.
In this forum, all but 1 thread is positive...


Quote:
Originally Posted by froggin4colorado View Post
And someone stated the demographics are different- Fort Carson, Peterson, Shriever, Norad, and the United States Air Force Academy are all in Colorado Springs- lots of diversity!
Wait. Stop the train. You're saying that Hampton Roads is NOT diverse? hahahaha

Look, bottom line. The median income here is about 62k a year. That's just per person, not a whole household. Odds are if you're in the military you make way below that. Also, many military have families which is an even greater drain on income (doubly so if the spouse doesn't work). Your average military in this area barely break 40k a year. If you have a family, 40k a year means you live in a really crappy neighborhood. Sorry, that's just the way it is.
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 8,766,944 times
Reputation: 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrak View Post
Look, bottom line. The median income here is about 62k a year. That's just per person, not a whole household.

You are completely wrong. According to this site, the median HOUSEHOLD income for Virginia Beach, which is the highest income Hampton Roads city, is about 66k.

Per capita income is about 31k. Per capita wage income is in the mid 20's (which is below the national and state average).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrak View Post
Odds are if you're in the military you make way below that.
An E-1 makes over 12k a year in housing allowances, and another 16,800-19,200 a year in salary. This would place even the lowest ranking military service members comfortably over the median wage earner in the area in total compensation. In fact, military personel are actually dragging our wage income figures UP in most cases.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrak View Post
Also, many military have families which is an even greater drain on income (doubly so if the spouse doesn't work). Your average military in this area barely break 40k a year. If you have a family, 40k a year means you live in a really crappy neighborhood. Sorry, that's just the way it is.
Actually, an E-5 with 10 years in easily breaks 40k in total housing allowance+base pay, even an E-4 comes pretty close. If you are particuliarly mobile and make it to E-7 in 10 years, you would be making over 40k in wages alone, forget about housing or any other benefits.

It is an absolute myth that our military is underpaid. In fact, the compensation for a member of the military humiliates equivalent civilian positions in the Hampton Roads area until you start talking about top level officers or medical specialists, who are generally paid below what theyd make in the civilian world.
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Key West, FL, USA
100 posts, read 197,829 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
You are completely wrong. According to this site, the median HOUSEHOLD income for Virginia Beach, which is the highest income Hampton Roads city, is about 66k.
Boy do I have egg on my face. You're right. Regardless...I still think I have a viable point. If you're a household making 40k or less you're going to be in a crappy neighborhood.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Actually, an E-5 with 10 years in easily breaks 40k in total housing allowance+base pay, even an E-4 comes pretty close.

If you are particuliarly mobile and make it to E-7 in 10 years, you would be making over 40k in wages alone, forget about housing or any other benefits.

It is an absolute myth that our military is underpaid. In fact, the compensation for a member of the military humiliates equivalent civilian positions in the Hampton Roads area until you start talking about top level officers or medical specialists, who are generally paid below what theyd make in the civilian world.
OK...you lost me with these paragraphs though. I can't speak for other industries, but I can for the ones that I have specific knowledge of in this area: advertising/marketing, IT, and printing/publishing. In any of those industries, if you have 10 years experience you're easily making 60k a year. And that's if you're average. If you actually strive for success (PARTICULARLY in IT) you're definitely making 6 figures.

I have only 5 years experience in IT and I'm making...a bunch more than 40k. Let's leave it at that.

I hire our new IT guys and assist with the hiring of our other departments (the other industries I mentioned). 23 year old college grads with bachelor's degrees, even in this market, would walk if we tried to offer them 40k. And those that wouldn't, I wouldn't want to hire anyways.
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Old 12-30-2009, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Key West, FL, USA
100 posts, read 197,829 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
An E-1 makes over 12k a year in housing allowances, and another 16,800-19,200 a year in salary. This would place even the lowest ranking military service members comfortably over the median wage earner in the area in total compensation.
As an afterthought...I used to be a bread baker at Schlotzky's Deli in my younger years. I made 20k a year. A far cry from the 31k you're talking about above, but then I only worked 6-9 hours a day, 5 days a week. I have a creeping suspicion that if you actually plotted out the actual hours worked by your hypothetical E-1 above (plus all the time spent at sea or overseas) it would come out to about 2 bucks an hour. I think there are probably many extenuating factors when talking about a military "job."
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Northern VA (for now)
23,010 posts, read 31,965,939 times
Reputation: 30400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
If I were to make a list of places to move to from Hampton Roads, NOVA wouldnt even be close to getting on it. NOVA is almost an exact replica of Hampton Roads, except its not as laid back and doesnt have as good of weather, and has a much worse problem with organized gangs and crime.
Something we can agree on. Don't forget twice the price.
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Old 12-30-2009, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Virginia
1,938 posts, read 6,192,872 times
Reputation: 865
Emrak,
I read the link you put in and it had for COS and I read a total of 22 posts by viewers and 2 of them were negative (a couple posts were duplicates). In that article it discussed median house price, unemployment rates, education, etc. After reading the one you posted, I looked up Hampton Roads in comparison and wanted to really compare- didn't you make a comment like "sound similar" in reference to COS? Thought you had but maybe I was wrong. My comment was in reference to the comparison to Hampton Roads.
I think the data on citydata is incorrect about cities, I don't think I could find a home to rent in COS for the $782 they quote as average rent. A house would rent easily for $900 on up.
Anyhow, I apologize if you hadn't posted that link for me to read- thought you had.
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Old 12-31-2009, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 8,766,944 times
Reputation: 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrak View Post
Boy do I have egg on my face. You're right. Regardless...I still think I have a viable point. If you're a household making 40k or less you're going to be in a crappy neighborhood.
Well, if you are making 40k and bought your house 10-15 years ago, you could have gotten in a decent neighborhood. My parents bought a house in 1993, its one of the bigger ones in their decent neighborhood (over 2000 sqft), and they got it for like 113k. Ironically, my Dad was in the Navy at that point.

At this point, real estate in the area is about 50-75% overpriced. The median household needs about 14-20k more to afford the median house in Virginia Beach. That is absolutely rediculous.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrak View Post
OK...you lost me with these paragraphs though. I can't speak for other industries, but I can for the ones that I have specific knowledge of in this area: advertising/marketing, IT, and printing/publishing. In any of those industries, if you have 10 years experience you're easily making 60k a year. And that's if you're average. If you actually strive for success (PARTICULARLY in IT) you're definitely making 6 figures.
IT, maybe.....but printing and marketing, in Hampton Roads? Bunk.

My ex-father in law has been in the printing business for well over 10 years, in fact, hes a supervisor at Northrop Grumman if Im not mistaken, and he doesnt make close to 60k.

As for marketing, that is a joke of an industry. The only people who make any money in that field are executives and salesmen. When I was in ODU majoring in finance, us and the accountants had special names for people in "Marketing". Mostly, we couldnt figure out why they were taking up space in our building when they should have been with the Art History majors. I cant imagine many of them ever became employed in a marketing position in Hampton Roads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrak View Post
I hire our new IT guys and assist with the hiring of our other departments (the other industries I mentioned). 23 year old college grads with bachelor's degrees, even in this market, would walk if we tried to offer them 40k. And those that wouldn't, I wouldn't want to hire anyways.
Id love to know where you work. When I graduated from ODU in 2004 with a degree in Finance, the only job I could find was one making spreadsheets for $10 an hour in a year of sending out hundreds of resumes. I was trained to be an investment banker or a financial analyst, and I was making spreadsheets for $10 an hour. Most of the people I knew from my classes were having equal difficulities, I kept seeing them at all the job fairs I went to.

Now, RtandC was nice enough to post a piece of data a short time ago that supports exactly this. The median WAGE INCOME in Virginia Beach is in the mid 20's. This means that if you talked to the average person in Virginia Beach, theyd be making in the mid 20's or less.
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Old 12-31-2009, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
5,517 posts, read 8,766,944 times
Reputation: 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emrak View Post
As an afterthought...I used to be a bread baker at Schlotzky's Deli in my younger years. I made 20k a year. A far cry from the 31k you're talking about above, but then I only worked 6-9 hours a day, 5 days a week. I have a creeping suspicion that if you actually plotted out the actual hours worked by your hypothetical E-1 above (plus all the time spent at sea or overseas) it would come out to about 2 bucks an hour. I think there are probably many extenuating factors when talking about a military "job."

Um, total compensation has nothing to do with "hourly compensation". You stated that military members were basically dirt broke, and the reality is, even the lowest ranking ones are doing better then the median wage earner in Virginia Beach.
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Old 12-31-2009, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Key West, FL, USA
100 posts, read 197,829 times
Reputation: 65
Something is wrong with these wage statistics, I just can't put my finger on it and I lack the motivation to ferret it out.

This median income for residents of HR...obviously the military is included...does it include housing allowances, etc...? Or does it just factor in there actual pay (aka, 16k-19k for an E1)? If it's just factoring in their actual pay, then I think the military is lowering the median income of the area.

The notion that the average person in VB is making in the 20k's has to be wrong. This region would be utterly riddled with poverty and crime...unless the median age of a VB resident was in the 20's. Then it'd be different tale (roommates would allow for higher standard of living, etc...).
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Old 12-31-2009, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Key West, FL, USA
100 posts, read 197,829 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
IT, maybe.....but printing and marketing, in Hampton Roads? Bunk.

My ex-father in law has been in the printing business for well over 10 years, in fact, hes a supervisor at Northrop Grumman if Im not mistaken, and he doesnt make close to 60k.
I've noticed that the older an individual is, the less pay they're willing to accept. Either they have less sense of their current self-worth in the marketplace, or perhaps they simply have far less expenses (bought a house in a far cheaper market, car is paid off, etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
As for marketing, that is a joke of an industry. The only people who make any money in that field are executives and salesmen. When I was in ODU majoring in finance, us and the accountants had special names for people in "Marketing". Mostly, we couldnt figure out why they were taking up space in our building when they should have been with the Art History majors. I cant imagine many of them ever became employed in a marketing position in Hampton Roads.
Man...you have no idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude View Post
Id love to know where you work. When I graduated from ODU in 2004 with a degree in Finance, the only job I could find was one making spreadsheets for $10 an hour in a year of sending out hundreds of resumes. I was trained to be an investment banker or a financial analyst, and I was making spreadsheets for $10 an hour. Most of the people I knew from my classes were having equal difficulities, I kept seeing them at all the job fairs I went to.
I don't know much about finance, but I do know that if I were in that industry, I would not be in this area. Financial services is not a big industry here. I do have a friend in Bethesda, Maryland (4 years younger than me) who is making 6 figures as a financial analyst though.
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