Would you rent an off the grid house? (Captain Cook: renters, evictions)

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

Well, currently *no pun intended* we are considering connecting the new house to the electrical grid - however, only using the grid to power a few outlets in the garage for the wood shop tools. There would also be an outlet we could plug the inverter into - just a regular household outlet - so it could charge up the battery bank on cloudy days. We would still pay the minimum charge to be connected to the grid, which seems to be somewhere around $20 a month. However, on cloudy days, we wouldn't have to run the gas generator to charge up the battery system.

I think that's how I would do it, yeah. And the nice thing about doing that is, there's really no rush to do that before you move. (Because the new house is on the grid, right?) You can move in using the grid power already in the new house, then install the solar system as you have time (and perhaps budget) to do so.

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

During the winter, we run the generator sometimes as much as several hours a day, during the summer; hardly at all. We all know the price of gasoline isn't going to go down so using grid power to top off the battery bank as necessary might be less expensive than using a generator.

I'd really like to know the answer to that myself. I could dig up the formulas and do the math, but I don't have the time right now. Can someone else do the calcs? (EDIT: Wait, it's not that hard... brb!)

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

We would basically have two systems with most of the house on the solar system and just a few outlets on Helco's system and the solar panels wouldn't be attached to Helco's system at all. We shouldn't need any permission from Helco since the solar panels are kept separate from their system with no electricity going back to them at all.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

When we had extra power, we would store it in the battery bank instead of giving it to them. Also, when the grid power goes down, we'd still have power although we wouldn't have the ability to top off the battery bank and would then be 100% dependent on solar.

You can always hold onto the generator for emergency backup. That's how I plan to do it. Solar for everyday, intertie connection for banking extra energy in summer and drawing down in bad weather, plus my 3KW generator for backup if the grid goes down during bad weather.

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

That then gives us a quandary of how to power this house when we move to the new one. We can either buy another solar system or connect this one to the grid as well.

I'd leave that house as is. Seriously. The work to take down those panels, move them. put them back up, the chance of damaging something in the process... and I'd test the rental waters with the house as is. No point fixing it if it ain't broke, yeah?

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

We already have a spare inverter and backup generator but would have to buy about eight panels at $600 apiece and about eight batteries at about $90 each plus some miscellaneous wires and such. So, do we spend about $6,000 to power up the rental house with a solar system (<<<HINT HERE - the rental house already has a solar system. There's absolutely no point taking it down and then putting another one up in its place) or about a third of that amount to attach it to the grid? I don't know the actual attach to the grid costs at all.

I seriously doubt it would cost that much, but Helco has to answer that for you.

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

If we leave the solar on the soon to be rental house, then we could just get new panels and install them on the new house. That would be much easier than shifting panels and then installing more of them.

Yes, and a LOT less work. As I said at the top, unless I misunderstood something and you don't have ANY power at the new place, you really don't have to do a thing there in order to get moved. Pace yourself...

[jacq63]

Could this maybe be moved to real estate/rentals or even 'green living'? A lot of useful info here. We have an off-grid house which we'll need house-sitters for when we move O.S. There is no way we're going to hook up to the grid - we like the independence, plus being able to use the 'puter and dvd player even in a bad electrical storm. Living in it has helped us appreciate any likely problems and iron them out beforehand.

We have a generator which is a little distance from the cabin. Hubby dug a trench and ran a long cable, so no noise issues for us.

Our only feeling is that we wouldn't get a high rental for it b/c it's very isolated (that can be a plus of course), and you have to open 5 gates along a dirt road/track to reach it. The lawn needs regular maintenance with a rider mower, so the cost of hiring someone to take care of that (plus the indoor cleaning required to keep it insect and mouse free) would probably outweigh what we'd get from a renter. So we figured a house-sitter could do the maintenance and keep an eye on things, rather than being someone we'd more or less have to cater to.

I never thought about anyone stealing the panels. Ours are huge, and we don't get many visitors out there. We're more worried about them being blown off during a bad windstorm. Our wind-generator was blown over recently. How's that for irony?

OP, please keep us posted!

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by OpenD

I'd really like to know the answer to that myself. I could dig up the formulas and do the math, but I don't have the time right now. Can someone else do the calcs? (EDIT: Wait, it's not that hard... brb!)

Geez, it's harder to get the performance info than it is to do the math!

Alrighty, I rounded everything up, down, or sideways just to make it super simple and easy to follow:

I found a run-o'-the mill Briggs & Stratton 2KW gen-set that is spec'd to run 5 hours on 1 gallon of gas at half power. So if gas is $5/gal (which it will be soon) it would cost $1/hr to run the genny to produce 1kwh of electricity. Or $1/kwh.

Helco currently charges .39/kwh.

Charging your batteries using the grid would be much cheaper in this example. A more efficient gen-set than this (like a high end Honda) would close the gap some, but it seems a common sense guess that it wouldn't ever get cheaper than grid power.

OK, lunch is over... back to work...

[hotzcatz]

Thanks, OpenD! We just chewed on it a bit and came up with the same ballpark number. Guess grid power as a back up generator is the way to go. No inter-tie necessary, no power contracts with Helco, just a very minimal grid power usage to top off the battery bank as necessary. This should be good! The neighbors will appreciate it, too, since even a quiet Honda makes quite a bit of noise and now we won't need a backup generator at all.

Today we swapped out all the incandescent light bulbs at the new house for compact fluorescents. Right now there is a program at some of the high schools and some commercial institutions in Hilo where they will give you a brand new CFL light bulb for a used - even burnt out - incandescent bulb. We now have 100% CFL bulbs in the new house and have unplugged the solar water heater (with electric backup) so it is now entirely solar. We will probably attach a small gas on demand water heater at some point pretty soon, too.

Now we have to get the gas company to come take away the landsub gas tank in the back yard. They ask $7.29 per month to rent the tank plus an extra $1 per gallon for the gas when they come fill the tank so we will have to do without the convenience of delivered propane. We are just trying to be frugal, I dunno if we are actually trying to be "green", it just comes out that way.

Jacq63, I don't know if we need to cross post or not, we would probably forget to go find this post if we moved it somewhere else?

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

The neighbors will appreciate it, too, since even a quiet Honda makes quite a bit of noise and now we won't need a backup generator at all.

I was surprised how quiet the latest high end Hondas were at that shop you recommended. But that kine quiet isn't cheap. I'll keep my not-so-quiet generator for emergency use. I mean, what if a hurricane hits in the middle of the night and Helco goes down and I need to make some microwave popcorn?

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

We are just trying to be frugal, I dunno if we are actually trying to be "green", it just comes out that way.

At the heart of it, being green is about being frugal... frugal with limited resources, not being a marketing driven consumer, reducing and reusing and recycling... just like our grandparents did. And just like our grandchildren will appreciate us doing.

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

Jacq63, I don't know if we need to cross post or not, we would probably forget to go find this post if we moved it somewhere else?

With cross indexing and search tools, cross posting is not nearly as necessary as it once was. The thread belongs here, because where else are you going to read about somebody not being on the utility grid because the house used to be on the sugar plantation power system...

[ill fantom]

I would TOTALLY go for it, but its location, location, location! I am moving to HI at the end of June, so if the location is right, we may be in business!

[hotzcatz]

True, quiet isn't cheap and high end Hondas have a tendency to grow legs and walk off, too. Actually, if a hurricane hits in the middle of the night and Helco goes down, you also need the generator to turn on all the lights so your neighbors will be jealous. Generally, though, if the power stays down, then a lot of their frozen things migrate to your freezer but it's all good. There's usually a lot of hibachis going on when the power stays down for several days. Sort of a long block party.

Ill fantom, I think the house will be put on the grid before we find a renter for it. There doesn't seem to be that many folks interested in an off-grid house and then they'd be calling us up all the time when they ran the power down from forgetting to turn off the lights or something. We're gonna shift the system to the new house and have solar hot water as well as solar electric. Yay! Free hot water, free electricity. Gotta love that sunshine. Well, relatively free anyway. There's still tons of work to be done before the house is in any shape to rent. Sigh!

[ill fantom]

What island is the house on?

[hotzcatz]

Ah, how about "not Maui". We are on the Island of Hawaii so I don't think it's location will work for you. It is along the gorgeous Hamakua coast with sweeping ocean views yet in a small rural area that is safe and secure - but, it isn't on Maui, either.

[ill fantom]

Darn....