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Old 01-04-2012, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,082 posts, read 2,402,745 times
Reputation: 1271

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K View Post
Actually, two large trusts were forced to be terminated several years ago -- the "Estate of Samuel Mills Damon" (aka "the Damon Estate") and the "Estate of James Campbell" (aka "the Campbell Estate"). However, it wasn't a new law that forced their termination of the trusts -- it was the wills that established the them that forced their termination. Samuel M. Damon's will stipulated that his estate be terminated after the death of his last surviving grandchild. Damon's last surviving grandchild, Joan Damon Haig, passed away in late 2004. James Campbell's will stipulated that his estate be terminated 20 years after the death of his last surviving child. Campbell's last surviving child, Beatrice Campbell Wrigley, passed away in early 1987; thus, the Campbell Estate had to be terminated in 2007.

The Damon heirs ended up taking their fight over the estate's dissolution to the Hawai'i Supreme Court and liquidated its assets.
In re Estate of Damon

The Campbell heirs were a little smarter -- a successor entity called the "James Campbell Company, LLC" was established and most of the heirs took shares in the successor entity upon the estate's dissolution, instead of cash.

As for donating land to some sort of conservancy, both the Damon Estate and Campbell Estate had the zoning of some of their holdings changed to from "agricultural" to "conservation" over the years (for tax purposes) as well as engaged in "land swaps" with the State of Hawai'i. However, both of these trusts were "for profit" entities, not "non-profit" and the trustees had a fiduciary duty to maximize the income of the trusts for its beneficiaries. Thus, even if the trustees were "noble-minded" and wished to donate land, they didn't have the power to do so.
Thanks for the info, Jonah K!
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,082 posts, read 2,402,745 times
Reputation: 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMoon17 View Post
I would see it if GC wasn't in it. I cannot see certain movies despite how good they are if certain actors are in them (GC, Leonardo DiCaprio, Ashton Kutcher, or Lindsay Lohan).
I get Ashton and LiLo, but George and Leo? They're both serious actors who have given some great performances, despite their some-time status as tabloid sex symbols. George's performance in "The Descendants" is worthy of an Oscar.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:18 PM
 
Location: galaxy far far away
3,110 posts, read 5,384,797 times
Reputation: 7281
There are several very accurate books on Hawaii - As I frequently say, "Nothing is as it seems."

Movies like The Descendants simplify things for movie purposes.

Movements for and against different groups in Hawaii simplify things to galvanize support. There are many, many players in the drama of Hawaii and her history.

These will shed some more light for you:
"Land and Power in Hawaii" -- Cooper and Daws -- about the myriad of connections throughout Hawaii. Very interesting. As always, "follow the money."

"Broken Trust" - from a review about the book: "This book offers readers the opportunity to reexamine fundamental questions about unchecked power and civic responsibility that resonate far beyond the shores of America's 50th State." It's funny -- this book is almost prescient in relation to what is happening all over the country these days. They were only the tip of the greed iceberg that was growing at the base of our entire country.

"Hawaii" by James Michener - For sheer history and context, this is a worthwhile read. It's fascinating and will help you understand the patchwork quilt that makes up Hawaii. When I got it, it took me just a few days to read it. He's a wonderful writer and you get the gist of what created the current mix of "locals" and "local haoles" and all the other groups that are there. I fell in love with Hawaii all over again when I read it.

Something else that might help you understand how Hawaii is different is researching the Massie Case. You can google it and read many different stories about it. In my mind, it explains why we aren't all that politically correct in Hawaii. We've been there, done that. Hawaii learned a terrible lesson in race relations in this case. We learned to get along. We're a chain of very small islands. We can't be tearing away at each other.

One the ways we learned to accept everyone's mixed race was through humor. We make fun of everybody. Yes, some of it gets out of hand, and as the population changes, it doesn't always work.

But when you have a cultural memory of the horrible race tensions bubbling over like they were at the time of the Massie case, you understand why most of us who lived in Hawaii a long time just don't get our undies in a twist over being called "Haole" or any of the other nicknames -- I happen to be related to all of those, and I'm just givin' my relatives a hard time. But it's done with aloha, and appreciation for our differences. BTW - NONE of those are racial slurs UNLESS you attach some of those "special" words to them, or are saying them with malice.

Perhaps rather than just taking the word of Hollywood script writers, you might want to find some of these and read them. I read them all, I lived through a lot, and it gives me a different sense of the people and the land. No matter what is happening in Hawaii, I will always love her. She is a special place. There is nowhere else like it in the world. Maybe other places have the weather, maybe they have the mountains and the ocean. But the patchwork quilt that makes up Hawaii is really the essence of her spirit and her beauty.

Last edited by R_Cowgirl; 01-04-2012 at 10:57 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Hilo, HI
217 posts, read 431,261 times
Reputation: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonuMan View Post
I get Ashton and LiLo, but George and Leo? They're both serious actors who have given some great performances, despite their some-time status as tabloid sex symbols. George's performance in "The Descendants" is worthy of an Oscar.
I feel like Leonardo DiCaprio acts exactly the same in every role. I saw enough of his movies to be done with him and have no desire to see another LD movie.

George Clooney really rubs me the wrong way. Yes I know it is silly to not see a movie because of that but yeah often times when someone is as overexposed as him (and the other actors I mentioned) I can no longer take them. I completely lose interest in their movies, cannot read about them in magazines, etc.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:00 AM
 
1,872 posts, read 2,815,136 times
Reputation: 2168
We saw The Descendants and really liked it. But I do understand what you are saying MMoon17. Sometimes even after eating something you really like for a long time, you get tired of it and don't ever want to eat it again.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 7,258,766 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonuMan View Post
Thanks for the info, Jonah K!
No problem. I could write a couple of books about some of the trusts in Hawai'i. Unfortunately, I'd probably be disowned by my ʻohana if I did.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,082 posts, read 2,402,745 times
Reputation: 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Cowgirl View Post
There are several very accurate books on Hawaii - As I frequently say, "Nothing is as it seems."

Movies like The Descendants simplify things for movie purposes.

Movements for and against different groups in Hawaii simplify things to galvanize support. There are many, many players in the drama of Hawaii and her history.

These will shed some more light for you:
"Land and Power in Hawaii" -- Cooper and Daws -- about the myriad of connections throughout Hawaii. Very interesting. As always, "follow the money."

"Broken Trust" - from a review about the book: "This book offers readers the opportunity to reexamine fundamental questions about unchecked power and civic responsibility that resonate far beyond the shores of America's 50th State." It's funny -- this book is almost prescient in relation to what is happening all over the country these days. They were only the tip of the greed iceberg that was growing at the base of our entire country.

"Hawaii" by James Michener - For sheer history and context, this is a worthwhile read. It's fascinating and will help you understand the patchwork quilt that makes up Hawaii. When I got it, it took me just a few days to read it. He's a wonderful writer and you get the gist of what created the current mix of "locals" and "local haoles" and all the other groups that are there. I fell in love with Hawaii all over again when I read it.

Something else that might help you understand how Hawaii is different is researching the Massie Case. You can google it and read many different stories about it. In my mind, it explains why we aren't all that politically correct in Hawaii. We've been there, done that. Hawaii learned a terrible lesson in race relations in this case. We learned to get along. We're a chain of very small islands. We can't be tearing away at each other.

One the ways we learned to accept everyone's mixed race was through humor. We make fun of everybody. Yes, some of it gets out of hand, and as the population changes, it doesn't always work.

But when you have a cultural memory of the horrible race tensions bubbling over like they were at the time of the Massie case, you understand why most of us who lived in Hawaii a long time just don't get our undies in a twist over being called "Haole" or any of the other nicknames -- I happen to be related to all of those, and I'm just givin' my relatives a hard time. But it's done with aloha, and appreciation for our differences. BTW - NONE of those are racial slurs UNLESS you attach some of those "special" words to them, or are saying them with malice.

Perhaps rather than just taking the word of Hollywood script writers, you might want to find some of these and read them. I read them all, I lived through a lot, and it gives me a different sense of the people and the land. No matter what is happening in Hawaii, I will always love her. She is a special place. There is nowhere else like it in the world. Maybe other places have the weather, maybe they have the mountains and the ocean. But the patchwork quilt that makes up Hawaii is really the essence of her spirit and her beauty.
Thanks for all this information, R_Cowgirl. For no apparent reason, I became obessed with Hawaii when I was 12 (I'm a mainland haole who had never been there and didn't know anyone from there), and I read and loved James Michener's Hawaii when I was 15. It was one of the few non-science-fiction books I read as a teenager, which tells you how strongly I connected with Hawaii. I eventually married a local gal whose parents were born on, lived on, and worked on a cattle ranch on the Big Island -- as did she, until they closed the ranch as a working ranch when she was a still a girl. As a result of my marriage and my visits to Hawaii with her, I've become quite educated about Hawaiian history and culture. She's Japanese/Portuguese and from working-class people, so I definitely don't get the "privileged haole" perspective.

There's always more to learn, though, so thanks for the other book recommendations. My wife and I are fans of true-crime documentaries on TV, and a couple years ago, they showed one about the Massie case. Another book I recommend, with reservations, is the recent Unfamiliar Fishes, by Sarah Vowell. She's a New Yorker who has Cherokee ancestors. She was struck by the similarities between what happened to her ancestors and the native Hawaiians, so she researched and wrote a book that covers the period between the arrival of the missionaries in 1828 and annexation in 1898. The information is fascinating, and my wife learned some new things, but Vowell's writing style can get annoying at times. She inserts herself too often into the narrative, for no good reason, and her ironic comments are sometimes hilarious and sometimes stupid.

Even though The Descendants (or any two-hour movie) couldn't cover all the complexities of Hawaii, at least it was more thoughtful than most. I was really disappointed in the new version of Hawaii Five-0 and stopped watching it after several episodes. I was hoping for a realistic cop drama like NYPD Blue that explored the nuances of present-day Hawaii, rather than a formulaic buddy-cop action/comedy. I loved the original Five-0 and watched it religiously as a teenager. My wife and I are are gradually going through the series on DVD now. Yes, it's easy to make fun of many aspects, but, at its best, the show tackled some important issues that were specific to Hawaii.
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
1,082 posts, read 2,402,745 times
Reputation: 1271
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMoon17 View Post
George Clooney really rubs me the wrong way. Yes I know it is silly to not see a movie because of that but yeah often times when someone is as overexposed as him (and the other actors I mentioned) I can no longer take them. I completely lose interest in their movies, cannot read about them in magazines, etc.
It would be easy for me to hate George Clooney because he has perfect looks and I don't, he's rich and I'm not, and he owns a villa on Lake Como and I don't -- but, like Paul Newman, Robert Redford, and Brad Pitt, he's so modest, humble, and self-effacing that I can't summon the hatred.
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:33 AM
 
Location: Hilo, HI
217 posts, read 431,261 times
Reputation: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by McFrostyJ View Post
We saw The Descendants and really liked it. But I do understand what you are saying MMoon17. Sometimes even after eating something you really like for a long time, you get tired of it and don't ever want to eat it again.
You got it.
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