Why a lot of negative remarks from native's? (Captain Cook: home, move)

[Moth]

When my haole husband and I got married (at Nani Mau Gardens btw), my grinning uncles slapped him on the back and said, "looks like we got another haole in the family". Then they offered him a beer.

Yeah we all have the right to live where ever we want. But is it truly wise for someone to move to a place where they can't stand the locals? The way they talk, the way they act, the things they eat... Is it a good idea for them to move to a place that walks to a different beat than they do?

The law that many well meaning haoles break when they come to the islands is the no wiki-wiki law. It's really a matter of attitude.

Sounds like it alternates between fun and hostility. Why does the word even exist except to preserve an "us and them" mentality?

As for people moving where they cannot stand the locals, well, do you know that's the case with everyone who moves to Hawaii? With all due respect, that sounds a bit absurd. Newcomers and locals owe each other nothing except for adherance to the Golden Rule.

Your point regarding the pace of Hawaii bears some validity. However, I would think one could find numerous similiar examples. New York is certainly more fast paced than most places and it requires a period of transition for people who move there. However I don't think there is any mass hysteria directed against them. They sink or swim.

Why not give people time to make adjustments? Why not try to educate them? Montana is receiving a lot of newcomers and they published literature for them about cattle grazing rights and other customs. Works like a charm.

Of course that would eliminate a very convenient scapegoat.

[Paniolo Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by Moth

Sounds like it alternates between fun and hostility. Why does the word even exist except to preserve an "us and them" mentality?

As for people moving where they cannot stand the locals, well, do you know that's the case with everyone who moves to Hawaii? With all due respect, that sounds a bit absurd. Newcomers and locals owe each other nothing except for adherance to the Golden Rule.

Your point regarding the pace of Hawaii bears some validity. However, I would think one could find numerous similiar examples. New York is certainly more fast paced than most places and it requires a period of transition for people who move there. However I don't think there is any mass hysteria directed against them. They sink or swim.

Why not give people time to make adjustments? Why not try to educate them? Montana is receiving a lot of newcomers and they published literature for them about cattle grazing rights and other customs. Works like a charm.

Of course that would eliminate a very convenient scapegoat.

No hostility, just lots of fun. I say again, haole is not a bad word.

People moving to where they can't stand the locals. Certainly it is not the case of all haoles moving to Hawaii. There are a few that have done it and maybe because of this, they are unhappy. Yes, as you say, they will have to adjust to the local way of life. Sink or swim.

Scapegoat? Honestly, I don't know what you are talking about. Hawaii is a very welcoming place. Full of aloha. What the locals do not welcome are uptight people. Be they locals or haoles.

Folks, just smile and be laid back and things will be just fine.

[Moth]

Scapegoat? Honestly, I don't know what you are talking about. Hawaii is a very welcoming place. Full of aloha. What the locals do not welcome are uptight people. Be they locals or haoles.

Reading the various threads, one is struck by the venom directed to those who are not part of the "club", so to speak. It sounds as if Hawaii is a wonderful as well as difficult place to live and the difficulties are blamed on newcomers. Why else call them Haoles? What exemplifies "uptight" more than tagging and stereotyping people who happen to not live in your state? What is more uptight than exhibiting qualified racism, a sense of entitlement and extreme self-centeredness. Jeez, I never thought the day would come when Hawaiians topped the uptight list.

Hawaii is a great place and there are obviously great people there. But reading these posts one cannot help thinking that some Hawaiians think its all about them.

Anyway, that's the impression from these posts, but I suppose to verify it I would have to live there. As I have no desire (like Woody Allen I cannot be that mellow) to do so, it shall remain nothing more than a passing irritant.

[Paniolo Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by Moth

Reading the various threads, one is struck by the venom directed to those who are not part of the "club", so to speak. It sounds as if Hawaii is a wonderful as well as difficult place to live and the difficulties are blamed on newcomers. Why else call them Haoles? What exemplifies "uptight" more than tagging and stereotyping people who happen to not live in your state? What is more uptight than exhibiting qualified racism, a sense of entitlement and extreme self-centeredness. Jeez, I never thought the day would come when Hawaiians topped the uptight list.

Hawaii is a great place and there are obviously great people there. But reading these posts one cannot help thinking that some Hawaiians think its all about them.

Anyway, that's the impression from these posts, but I suppose to verify it I would have to live there. As I have no desire (like Woody Allen I cannot be that mellow) to do so, it shall remain nothing more than a passing irritant.

Hey, everybody gets uptight. Locals too. It's not a privilege reserved for haoles.

Really folks, we love haoles. If you guys find you just cannot be laid back, come for a visit. Hawaii is a great place to mellow out.

[Paniolo Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by Moth

Reading the various threads, one is struck by the venom directed to those who are not part of the "club", so to speak. It sounds as if Hawaii is a wonderful as well as difficult place to live and the difficulties are blamed on newcomers. Why else call them Haoles? What exemplifies "uptight" more than tagging and stereotyping people who happen to not live in your state? What is more uptight than exhibiting qualified racism, a sense of entitlement and extreme self-centeredness. Jeez, I never thought the day would come when Hawaiians topped the uptight list.

Hawaii is a difficult place to live in but it's not because of haoles. It's because it is a set of very isolated islands. And the heat and humidity and cost of living doesn't help either.

Haole is a Hawaiian word. It is a neutral term. I got a question. Does anyone who thinks the word "haole" is a derogatory term also thinks the same of the word "kama'aina"?

As I see it, there's no harm in the Hawaiian's having their own language. It's their land, their culture.

There are no "clubs". Just a bunch of people chillin' out and enjoying the island lifestyle.

[kani-lehua]

the term haole used to refer to anything foreign or introduced. the term has since been used by many to refer to any foreigner, especially caucasians.
being of hawaiian, caucasian and japanese ethnicities makes me what? usually when i have to fill out a form that asks about race, i check "other."

i got to tell you that there is divisiveness amongst hawaiians, too. one must have at least 50% blood quantum to participate in certain programs. where does that leave me? well, i can trace my lineage all the way back to Kamehameha I, but i am not 50% hawaiian. i'm just an "other." don't get me wrong, i love being of mixed blood and love my home, HAWAI'I!

[Moth]

As I see it, there's no harm in the Hawaiian's having their own language. It's their land, their culture.

Actually no, its not their land anymore than where I live is my land. Beyond what they and I own of course.

As for language, yes Hawaiian is a very lovely language without a doubt. However, I doubt many people speak it anymore as a first language. But I have no problem with it having official status for ceremonial reasons- kind of like Gaulic in Ireland.

Culture? Sure, no argument there although I do not see the relevance. Nobody is talking about making Hawaiians more like Nebraskans.

[qwerty007]

Originally Posted by Paddywagons

I found it terrifying that anybody can defend hating others and even proscribe to violence in any form.

...hate is not the way!

Well said paddywagon. But unfortunately, as your grandfather must have been aware, the human species is inherently selfish, clannish, and predatory. This is why we have laws, societies, and armies that hold us all in check. The do-gooder's are in the minority, and the sheep are in the majority. Mankind still has not attained the level of self-awareness that allows for philosophical determinism. This is in spite of religion, in spite of education, and in spite of however much else we have managed to achieve, that you would think has a 'civilizing' effect upon us.

I have nothing to do with Hawaii, so am looking from the outside in. I see a lot of posts mostly from people defending their position as relative newcomers or 'outsiders', from fewer posts actually attacking that position. It looks a little like wholesale guilt. Hawaii was acquired under rather inauspicious circumstances, as were many parts of the world. But it was just the so-called 'civilized' world, doing what mankind has always done, casting its net further afield. The white man just happened to display a certain predilection for wanting to improve his lot, and proved resourceful in that quest.

Overcrowding, globalization, racial tensions, and all that they bring with them are truly global phenomena, and Hawaii is just a microcosm of that world. It has it's own idiosyncrasies, but essentially reflects the times we live in. Civilizations come and go, some making their mark in positive ways, where mankind seems to make a gargantuan leap forward, but the one thing we will never escape is our inherent nature. Call me a cynic, but I believe that the utopian ideals of a perfect world, where we live in harmony are not achievable without radical change, where everyone is in agreement about how it is achieved. Of course, that does not mean we should stop trying.

It seems to me that the problem is not a racial one, so much as an economic one, in that certain segments of the society feel marginalized, and because of the geographical nature of Hawaii, they feel pushed to the very shores from which there is no escape. However, I don't know of many places in the world where similar conflicts don't exist.

Most who live on Hawaii should be grateful for where they live, since their lot is considerably better than many places. Democracy and the free market is not a perfect systems, but its the best we know, so you can improve your lot by accepting its principles, or suffer by fighting it. But the US can do a lot more in trying to understand other cultures around the world, and that their way of life, considered extreme or at least excessive by some, is not what everyone wants.

[Paddywagons]

Qwerty 007! Wow, now that was amazing - BRAVO!!!

I wish I could express myself like you can; what an amazing talent!

I feel like you got inside my head & expressed so eloquently and accurately what I feel we all know, or should inherently know. I write off the top of my head as I'm so stuck for time these days, but I can only motivate myself when I am passionate about a subject. I hope you continue to share your knowledge and and philosophy with all on this forum, people need to hear the truth and speak it. Too many posts do seem so apparently self serving, as you make clear is a natural human trait. I know that sounds judgemental, but I too have been guilty in my life of putting myself first unfairly. Everybody has a right to an opinion as they say, BUT only as long as it doesn't inspire or cause hate and violence towards others; I refer to your statement concerning social controls such as organized civilization and its laws to protect us from one another for example. How can we just continue to allow the negative qualities you mentioned such as selfishness, clannishness and predatorial behavior to go unanswered - again you refer to the sheep population! It is the truth - and we all know it. I struggle to understand how the world, and we specifically as individuals, allow this condition to perpetuate without opening our eyes and realizing it's only going to get much worse for each of us as populations explode and rub elbows across the globe. If we don't all start trying harder to get along and stop this us against them attitude, we wil destroy any chance of achieving some acceptable sense of peace on earth. Every one of you out there that spreads divisiveness without thinking of the rippling repercussions, MUST realize that you PERSONNALLY are contributing to the impending doom of our civilization. Each one of you out there must take responsibility for ranting thoughtly and negatively the way I so often see, and do something positive and peaceful whenever you get the chance - you might find that the ones you don't like, or even think you hate - might just become your best friend and help you one day when you really need it.

Peace & love!!

[Jimbo's]

I read this and thought to myself that everybody migrates from everywhere else. For example the Hawaiians were Tahitians that arrived on the islands somewhere in the 500 A.D. and living as happy islanders until 1778 when James Cook arrived from Britain, but things really started to change was in 1813 when the first pineapple plants were introduced from Spain.

Now at that time there were not enough Hawaiians to do the majority of the labor so they imported some Japanese and Chinese as low cost labor to work the fields.

It was in 1848 when King Kamehameha III allowed the native Hawaiians and haloes alike to be able to actually own land in Hawaii.

Once the Hawaiian people found they could make money with the plantations they exploited the Japanese workers in 1885 as low labor employees. The Japanese and Chinese decided to educate themselves and started taking over as bosses and owners of these plantations.

In 1898 Hawaii is annexed to the United States to keep Japan and or China from taking over the islands and have a strong hold in the pacific and two years later Hawaii becomes a United States Territory in agreement with the Hawaiian people.

In 1959 when Hawaii becomes the 50th state is when the real tourism begins and Hawaii becomes the destination spot as a warm wonderful, friendly place to visit and live.

So it’s actually been 48 years of the mainland haloes invasion of the islands but don’t get me wrong the other British type haloes have been around since James Cook even though he was killed by Hawaiians in 1779 one year after he arrived.

So what I am getting at is if you look at history it was the Hawaiians that brought in the outsiders as a way to make money with cheap labor just like when the Africans (except they weren't paid) were imported to the mainland it was the way of life back then. I do not condone it in anyway shape or form as a matter of fact I don’t have much use for people that treat others any less then how they would want to be treated.

I believe in the Hawaiian Culture and that they should never forget it. Being called a Haloes is just a way of saying your not a Hawaiian. My background is that my great, great grandmother was Hawaiian and grandfather was not and I don’t look like I have any traces of Hawaiian in me.

I think that it’s just a handful of Hawaiians that resent Haloes for things that happened 200 plus years ago in which none of us had anything to do with. Yes I have to agree that the rich Haloes like their big houses on the islands but just like everywhere else we sold it to them as we saw a lot more money than what it was worth to us.

I have been there many, many times and not once did a Hawaiian owned property sell for less to help keep inflation down. Everyone everywhere is for their own culture as a people but as a person they do what’s best for them and their family’s future.