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I was just doing back-of-the-envelope math when I said a 10-15 y-o mortgage was half of current rent. I figured that essentially, rent=mortgage (in the ideal landlord world), though rents were lower, but now you say they're up again. A nice 500K 3/2 house has a 2500 mortgage and rents for around 2200. But that house was 250K 10-15 years ago (OK more like 15-20), so the mortgage (after some recent refi) is probably around 1200-1300 (WARNING: I am making up these numbers, I think they're realistic based on watching both r-e and rental rates over the years, but I'm too lazy to look up the real data). Of course, most 'ohana units that people rent weren't purchased separately, but the rent you pay to live in that unit is probably covering 50-60% of the whole property's mortgage, if the owner bought 10-20 years ago.
Open D: I thought some areas of Oahu had piped in gas (don't know which kind, but no tank). Aha, from THE GAS COMPANY :
"Stretching from Campbell Industrial Park to Hawaii Kai, more than 1,000 miles of underground pipeline carry synthetic natural gas to residential and business customers."
Their website says over $4 per therm, which is roughly $4 per gallon. On Kaua'i, propane is about $5/gallon, whether they fill your big tank (+$7/month service fee) or you carry the small ones to Ace hardware. The gas company
A lot of houses use solar water heaters, with electric for backup (needed about once a month)--it's required on all new housing. He was talking about just electric hot water tanks, electric on-demand water heaters are rare (only seen them in Europe). But gas on-demand is getting popular (both would probably work great as a solar backup too). For drying clothes, you can always hang your clothes, I've seen people do it a lot, even on Oahu. I don't think many people use electric heaters except for upcountry Maui and BI.
Don't know about extra water pumps. Here on Kaua'i there's plenty of pressure everywhere, and I've never heard of people needing them.
A lot of the houses on the Island of Hawaii aren't connected to County water but catch the rainwater to use for their household use. Those folks use pumps to pressurize the water they use. They also usually bring in drinking water. The U of H has a paper on how to use catchment water safely.
We used to use gas for heating water, but now we have solar water heating and it is a LOT less expensive.
If your house is cold in the winter time (very few Hawaii houses have heaters in them) an electric blanket is a great way to sleep warm and doesn't use much power at all.
I was just doing back-of-the-envelope math when I said a 10-15 y-o mortgage was half of current rent. I figured that essentially, rent=mortgage (in the ideal landlord world), though rents were lower, but now you say they're up again. A nice 500K 3/2 house has a 2500 mortgage and rents for around 2200. But that house was 250K 10-15 years ago (OK more like 15-20), so the mortgage (after some recent refi) is probably around 1200-1300 (WARNING: I am making up these numbers, I think they're realistic based on watching both r-e and rental rates over the years, but I'm too lazy to look up the real data). Of course, most 'ohana units that people rent weren't purchased separately, but the rent you pay to live in that unit is probably covering 50-60% of the whole property's mortgage, if the owner bought 10-20 years ago.
Open D: I thought some areas of Oahu had piped in gas (don't know which kind, but no tank). Aha, from THE GAS COMPANY :
"Stretching from Campbell Industrial Park to Hawaii Kai, more than 1,000 miles of underground pipeline carry synthetic natural gas to residential and business customers."
Their website says over $4 per therm, which is roughly $4 per gallon. On Kaua'i, propane is about $5/gallon, whether they fill your big tank (+$7/month service fee) or you carry the small ones to Ace hardware. The gas company
A lot of houses use solar water heaters, with electric for backup (needed about once a month)--it's required on all new housing. He was talking about just electric hot water tanks, electric on-demand water heaters are rare (only seen them in Europe). But gas on-demand is getting popular (both would probably work great as a solar backup too). For drying clothes, you can always hang your clothes, I've seen people do it a lot, even on Oahu. I don't think many people use electric heaters except for upcountry Maui and BI.
Don't know about extra water pumps. Here on Kaua'i there's plenty of pressure everywhere, and I've never heard of people needing them.
Hmm... your post made me realize something. Us ohana renters are subsidizing the high real estate prices, because of the sheer number of houses that have these units.
Please forgive a question from a non-resident, but I've wondered if being white is a problem with making friends there. I've heard stories about resentment of "Howlies" from natives. Is it an issue?
I think the hardest thing for people who move isn't so much the prices of goods and services - you expect that. It is making 20-50% less for a comparable job from the mainland to Hawaii. Programmers who make $90K in the San Francisco bay area will make $50K here - that's a huge cut with the increase of other day to day items.
$90K would be on the entry level or low end of the scale in the bay area and would already be hard for software devs with even small families to live close to work if their offices are in SF, Palo Alto, Mountain View, or Cupertino where many of the desirable jobs are located. I think median is 110K and need 130-150K (not counting stocks and bonuses, which seem to be the norm these days) to live like 90K vs Seattle or Portland. In the last year or so alone, I've seen an average of 2 goodbye emails per month from friends and colleagues on their way to their new gigs usually followed by links to open positions in their new companies.
I'm not disputing what devs make in HI but seeing how Honolulu is often compared to SF in terms of cost of living, it seems a miracle that HI devs -specially those who are just starting to build their nest eggs -are not moving en masse to the bay area (considering how hard it is to live on $50K at SF prices vs the mini hiring boom going on around Sillicon Valley); stripping HI of its critical mass of workers for that discipline?
$90K would be on the entry level or low end of the scale in the bay area and would already be hard for software devs with even small families to live close to work if their offices are in SF, Palo Alto, Mountain View, or Cupertino where many of the desirable jobs are located. I think median is 110K and need 130-150K (not counting stocks and bonuses, which seem to be the norm these days) to live like 90K vs Seattle or Portland. In the last year or so alone, I've seen an average of 2 goodbye emails per month from friends and colleagues on their way to their new gigs usually followed by links to open positions in their new companies.
I'm not disputing what devs make in HI but seeing how Honolulu is often compared to SF in terms of cost of living, it seems a miracle that HI devs -specially those who are just starting to build their nest eggs -are not moving en masse to the bay area (considering how hard it is to live on $50K at SF prices vs the mini hiring boom going on around Sillicon Valley); stripping HI of its critical mass of workers for that discipline?
What devs?? Our economy is based on dancing in grass skirts for tourists. There is very little high tech work that isn't in support of something else, like IT jobs at hotels or shipping companies.
The only programmers I know are people who work from home.
I know a couple of work from home programmers. They moved to the Big Island since they could have nice weather, not as expensive housing, etc. They brought a mainland income to a rural area of the island (they bought a house in an old plantation village) and are making a ton more money than their neighbors. It's kinda difficult for them to find equal friends since everyone else is much lower on the economic scale. If they want to fly to Oahu to see a show or something, none of their neighbors will be going along or able to talk about it afterwards with them - or even really be able to figure out why they went. I think if the programmers had chosen a bit more upscale of a neighborhood, there wouldn't be such a disparity between them and their neighbors. They all kinda get along, but neither one really understands the other so community doesn't really happen.
The programmers are haole and they moved to a very local camp, but their lack of fitting in isn't from their ethnic background, it's from the total lack of any congruent viewpoints they share with their neighbors.
$90K would be on the entry level or low end of the scale in the bay area and would already be hard for software devs with even small families to live close to work if their offices are in SF, Palo Alto, Mountain View, or Cupertino where many of the desirable jobs are located. I think median is 110K and need 130-150K (not counting stocks and bonuses, which seem to be the norm these days) to live like 90K vs Seattle or Portland. In the last year or so alone, I've seen an average of 2 goodbye emails per month from friends and colleagues on their way to their new gigs usually followed by links to open positions in their new companies.
I'm not disputing what devs make in HI but seeing how Honolulu is often compared to SF in terms of cost of living, it seems a miracle that HI devs -specially those who are just starting to build their nest eggs -are not moving en masse to the bay area (considering how hard it is to live on $50K at SF prices vs the mini hiring boom going on around Sillicon Valley); stripping HI of its critical mass of workers for that discipline?
Many who grow up in Hawaii go to school on the mainland and do in fact stay in the mainland and get a job whether it be the bay area or somewhere else - get experience, and many move back eventually. I wouldn't charactarize it as "en masse", but it is a sizable number.
For others, family keeps them on the island or it is simply home.
I wish someone had given me a head's up about the "satellite city halls" scattered around Oahu. I heard there was one in Wahiawa where I could get my car paperwork processed so I drove into town (lived in Waialua) looking for the most splendiforous building in town. Found it and went inside.
It turned out to be a Zippy's.
They gimme one Zip-Pac.
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