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Old 03-30-2012, 02:40 AM
 
Location: Kahala
11,680 posts, read 15,631,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint View Post
I think Hawaii should have an exemption like Guam and other territories have (I think its the only island territory with no exemption), to allow foreign ships that have a market to go directly to Hawaii. If it is as uneconomical in all cases as you say, then there would be no effect, negative or positive. I have a feeling that it would open up free market opportunities that are otherwise distorted by a law made without hawaii in mind. You could have a boom between HK and Hawaii for each others products and services. You could have foreign operated ferries between the islands where local concerns have abandoned. All these would produce cheaper products, jobs, and tax revenue. The fact that there is such massive opposition to even consider the idea makes me think someone is making a killing.
As already mentioned, there is no restriction of a foreign ship stopping in Hawaii and dumping cargo. But, there is no market for that.

The only restrictiom is US to US - to do that, it must be US flagged or if foreign flagged must stop in a international port first like Mexico or Canada.

Where are you getting this impression a foreign ship can't go to Hawaii?
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:25 AM
 
142 posts, read 274,763 times
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Ah my mistake you are right there. But it still allows a monopoly on US to Hawaii shipping, which an exemption from which would provide the benefits I mentioned earlier

Jones Act Exemption Will Lower Prices of Goods and Services in Hawaii | Hawaii Reporter

Jones Act Inflicting Damage on Hawaii Economy | Hawaii Reporter

I dont see how an exemption will cripple the the US merchant marine.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:37 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,971 posts, read 26,422,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fancyapint View Post
Ah my mistake you are right there. But it still allows a monopoly on US to Hawaii shipping, which an exemption from which would provide the benefits I mentioned earlier.
Might. Possibly. Remember that Willoughby's article is campaign rhetoric, not unbiased analysis.

It also might destroy the current stability in the supply chain. Currently shipping to and from the state is quite reliable, which is good for us, because our market is so small. Destabilizing that resource actually could have catastrophic results for Hawai'i long-term.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:44 AM
 
142 posts, read 274,763 times
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I take your point. There should really be a case study to see what would be in the best interests of Hawaii and the nation. Then this could (or could not) be part of a multiple pronged solution to improving upon some of Hawaii's ills. I might write my new congressman if I am shocked by the price of milk (though I have lived in much more expensive international locales so might be a tall order)
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:58 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 9,800,662 times
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Again: the more you "improve" life for Hawaii by making it more affordable -- the more you will have to figure out how and where to put all the more people who will then come to compete for the minimal employment opportunities that exist (and are not going to increase -- ever) -- or squeeze into more retirement living.

And the more you all will have to put up with the expanding development and crowding and use of resources.

Knock yourselves out. I live on a boat. I'll just sail off where there's fewer folks.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:22 PM
 
142 posts, read 274,763 times
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Yeah I am starting to think on this board at least the main concern is protectionism against additional immigrants to Hawaii. And maybe that is a solution of a sort, a dissolution with Hawaii resulting in less people and more resources for the remaining set. I imagine if our economy pulls out of the doldrums this will all be moot anyway, maybe a more recession influenced phenomenon.
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:22 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 9,800,662 times
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I am quite sure that "protectionism" isn't at the root of any of the issues discussed here as per cost of living realities. The situation in Hawaii isn't "by design" or conspiracy -- it just is what it is by natural course. The situation couldn't really be much different. It is a balance. Make transportation and COL cheaper (by some magic means or by subsidies) and we would be subjected to more growth pressures. Mainland states and regions can grow as much as they want -- Hawaii can't.

I'm just suggesting that folks consider themselves lucky with what they've got, whatever the challenges today. Subsidize food / shipping costs and you'll have new frustrations with more crowding. Hawaii is what it is. And what it is is marvelous. Why isn't marvelous good enough?
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
1,214 posts, read 1,714,671 times
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Maybe Hawaii was better as it's own country.
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Old 03-31-2012, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Waianae, Hi
285 posts, read 1,041,534 times
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Thats a whole new can of worms, but since you brought it up I am just courious. As we all know there is a group who would love to see that happen, become an independant nation again. Times have changed greatly since Hawaii became a territory and then a state. What would happen if for some reason (that will never be) the United woke up one morning and said,"you know what we dont want Hawaii any longer you can once again be on your own". My questions, and I am really courious, and would really love to know from someone much smarter than I. Not wanting to sound like a smart a**, because I love Hawaii and have lived here for many years counting my Military time. I am sure there will be alot of replies to this, most will be very negitive, but really think about it. If the United States decided the day has come and pulled out, away goes the military, if I'm not mistaken The Gvt. is the largest employer in the islands, away goes all the subsidies, no more food stamps, no more housing assistance, Welfare, Medical, Social Security, and on and on. All the things that I think many take for granted. They would all dissappear. So, that being said my question would be, 1. What would the Nation of Hawaii use for money to buy goods? We would have to have a money base of some kind. What would we call our money and what would it be backed by? Even if we went back to full production of sugar cane, and pinapples that would not produce enough income to back the money needed to run a country and to provide for the residents. 2. Where would our medical care come from? Doctors would surely pull out with no gvt income sources. 3. Who would be the next country to "invade" and "take over the islands" 4. How would life be then compared to now. And, if we thought we could depend on tourism as our means of income, would the tourists still come as they do now with nothing from the U.S. here? Would love to hear some educated thoughts on this. As I said, I know there are alot more people out there that are alot smarter than me when it comes to this subject so what do you have to say?
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Old 03-31-2012, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Puna, Hawaii
206 posts, read 438,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
in part yes. but other part unions have killed farming in hawaii.
I've never heard of an "other part" union, but no one has "killed farming" in Hawaii. We have abundant fertile land with which to grow enough nutritious plant foods to sustain ourselves and provide good jobs while still keeping prices lower than shipped imported junk. Some people really can't wrap their minds around there being any other use of Hawaii's farmland than growing unsustainable, wasteful, chemicalized commodity crops for export with all the profits going to a multinational corporation. A good way to make things less expensive is just stop buying imported stuff.
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