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Old 06-13-2012, 12:11 AM
 
233 posts, read 313,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McFrostyJ View Post
NOPE! Like I said, we were poor. All of our appliances came from friends, relatives, garage sales etc.... I remember when we got our first color TV. Dad came home with it and said, "I really hated to spend that $5, but it is so big!" (It was a 25" console TV.)

Our first TV was a 13-inch b&w that had a broken antennae and only got two channels. But I never really went hungry, so I know I wasn't really poor. I was also happy to have the two channels after having none. I think a lot of this is completely relative.

Last edited by alex7777; 06-13-2012 at 12:23 AM..
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KauaiHiker View Post
I think you're right that fruit trees are the way to go (lower maintenance, high yield). But you either have to find a property (rental or purchase) with the trees, or wait 5-10 years. Other forms of gardening are more work, and thus less efficient. As mentioned, they're great for health reasons, and if you enjoy the work, it's more of a hobby, and you do save some money and get the satisfaction of eating what you grow. But if you want to optimize your time for work or recreation, I think you're better off shopping at the farmer's market (or Costco).

alex7777 wrote: "I would personally want some sort of the Dairy for my smoothies, and for Vitamin D..." Actually, coconut meat from a medium old coconut (so firm, but not tough) is excellent in smoothies, it gives a delicious creamy taste. Plus coconut fat isn't as bad as dairy fat, and there is some evidence it is not bad at all when not processed (ie hydrogenated). As for vitamin D, you're in Hawaii, your body makes its own in the sun. This milk thing is just another example of bringing your own hang-ups and preferences to the issue. If you want affordable, it's easy to give up dairy in Hawaii.

I will definitely explore conconut water and cream as substitues for dairy, since it's cheaper. (I already like coconut and coconut water a lot.) And true on the Vita-D. Thanks for the tips. I will note that I would probably be using powdered milk in any dairy applications, which is both cheaper and non-fat. (And much lighter, and therefore much cheaper to ship.)

But good overall point: if you want to keep costs down, giving up regular bottled milk would be a good start, given the cost there.

In terms of fruit trees -- I'll hopefully find some land with trees already on it. But can't you buy these close to mature, without having to wait so long for fruit production? And would the production be year-round? I understand they might cost a few hundred each, but that would appear a worthwhile investment if they lasted a good while.
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:26 AM
 
233 posts, read 313,681 times
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Originally Posted by CyberCity View Post
Many families do use soy milk. And if you don't mind the extra calories from sugar, Costco sells an affordable good Vanilla Soy Milk. We've only used soy (cooking, cereal, etc) for probably 3+ years now. Although I buy unsweetened if I can for myself. Almond milk and rice milk are also alternatives.

Are these cheaper than dairy in Hawaii? If so, good ideas.
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:18 AM
 
Location: Oahu
431 posts, read 393,413 times
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I really don't get the big discussion about dairy.
IME most people aren't really very concerned about it. You'll notice that there is non-dairy creamer offered in restaurants and coffee shops. Rarely do people demand "milk."
I usually use skim or 2% in my coffee but have grown accustomed to non-dairy creamers, especially the flavored ones. Probably crap as far as health benefits, but WTH, I have a few cups of coffee on a daily basis. No biggie.
I use skim milk for cooking and baking. Coconut milk (whole fat---IMHO the "lite" coconut milk is vile) when I make curries or soups (curried pumpking sweet potato...yes).
Calcium is available from many other sources. Ditto Vit D. No need to swig the cowjuice.
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:16 AM
 
Location: Macao
12,304 posts, read 18,158,855 times
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Originally Posted by PaliPatty View Post
I really don't get the big discussion about dairy.
IME most people aren't really very concerned about it.
I never cared about milk either. Than I had a kid.

I think anyone with very young kids (0-3), milk is nearly essential.

That being said, the price of milk wouldn't deter me from moving somewhere.
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Old 06-13-2012, 03:05 AM
Status: "It's hot in the tropics -mainland conspiracy?" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Kailua
4,859 posts, read 3,823,887 times
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If you have to ask yourself how do I make Hawaii affordable - how about considering living somewhere else affordable and taking vacations to Hawaii?

I just read a lot of posts of eliminate this - give up that - don't do that - what if you don't want to do that? Why should you?

I say life is short - have fun and vacation in Hawaii from your affordable place instead of dealing with all the stuff you can't have.
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:05 AM
 
Location: Maui County, HI
3,910 posts, read 2,846,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex7777 View Post
Are these cheaper than dairy in Hawaii? If so, good ideas.
Neither soy milk, nor coconut milk, or any kind of substitute is cheaper than cow milk in Hawaii. I don't know what fantasy land these people are living in. Coconut milk is also high in saturated fat and low in nutrients.
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:07 AM
 
Location: Maui County, HI
3,910 posts, read 2,846,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex7777 View Post
Hey, Pali, thanks for the gardening info, sounds great. How much would you say it cost to start and maintain your garden?

By "affordable", I'm basically just noting/proposing ways to keep costs down, partly bydistinguishing between wants and true needs. To me, all you really need is water, basic food, and basic shelter. Which, combined, really costs very little. After that, the Q is how much extras you're going to add. The more extra money you have, the more extras you can have.

I agree about resentment from some posters, who seem to want a mainland lifestyle with the same income. Clearly, that's not possible -- most people, at most income levels, will have to make adjustments for the higher COL. (And I'm trying to think of / request some on this thread.) But once that's accepted, it would seem that people would simply recognize that the beauty and weather of Hawaii comes with tradeoffs, just as the culture/variety of NYC does. As another poster once noted, the tradeoffs are either worth it for you, or they're not. If they are, you should live in Hawaii. If they're not, you shouldn't. There's nothing wrong with grumbling about the high prices, but I've seen nothing to suggest that $30K a year ($15/hr) would inherently force a single person into poverty here, and I'd suggets that those who claim that have never known real poverty.

("Austerity" is also a pretty malleable term, just like "affordable." I don't personally think I'd mind cutting costs if it meant I could live a certain lifestyle in other respects, and I wouldn't even view it as austerity if it accomplished that goal. But if someone else truly viewed their lives as austere due to necessary cost-cutting, then that might be a sign the tradeoffs aren't worthwhile for them.)
The thing is, you live in austerity/poverty, and you also work 80 hours a week just to survive at that level. So when do you get to enjoy the "weather"?


Do you know why I'm awake at 1am? Because it's hot and humid and I can't afford air conditioning. But I turned on the AC anyway and I'm waiting for it to cool down. Yes, real nice weather we have here courtesy of Honeywell.
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:21 AM
 
233 posts, read 313,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1 View Post
If you have to ask yourself how do I make Hawaii affordable - how about considering living somewhere else affordable and taking vacations to Hawaii?

I just read a lot of posts of eliminate this - give up that - don't do that - what if you don't want to do that? Why should you?

I say life is short - have fun and vacation in Hawaii from your affordable place instead of dealing with all the stuff you can't have.

If you really don't want to give up stuff to make it affordable, then you certainly shouldn't. Again, it's all a question of tradeoffs, with the proper tradeoff depending on the individual. I'm sure for some people, the sacrifices are worthwhile. For others, they're not.

But I think some would in fact have more fun someplace like Hawaii than on the mainland, even with the sacrifices/cutbacks. That's why we're examining possible measures to make it affordable for them.

Personally, I like the idea of splitting the year between Hawaii and the Mainland. Avoid the winter in my home region, get a nice break from the family, enjoy Hawaii 3-6 months a year, but also see family/old friends part of the year, and not really have to worry about rock fever. (I really need someplace nice in the winter for longer than a couple weeks.)
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:28 AM
 
233 posts, read 313,681 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkosmosis View Post
The thing is, you live in austerity/poverty, and you also work 80 hours a week just to survive at that level. So when do you get to enjoy the "weather"?


Do you know why I'm awake at 1am? Because it's hot and humid and I can't afford air conditioning. But I turned on the AC anyway and I'm waiting for it to cool down. Yes, real nice weather we have here courtesy of Honeywell.

Do you honestly work 80 hours a week? Do most people?

Again, even if Hawaii costs twice as much as the Mainland, then you should be above the poverty line at about $25K, and well above it at $30K. That would be $15/hr, 40 hours a week. If you worked 60 hours a week ($15hrs), you'd be at about $45K, or about $20K yearly above the poverty line. In any event, I see no reason anyone would need to work 80 hours, unless they were making closer to $7.50 an hour.

P.S.: Is it possible to live further up in the mountains, such that it's cooler at night? That would seem like a good solution to the heat problem. This definitely seem possible on B.I., just not sure about Oahu and other islands. But I'd much rather have a few blankets, and maybe a wood-burning stove, vs. having to run my A.C. at night to sleep.
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