Viable ways to make Hawaii affordable? (Honolulu, Wahiawa: apartments, for rent, condo)
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Do you honestly work 80 hours a week? Do most people?
Again, even if Hawaii costs twice as much as the Mainland, then you should be above the poverty line at about $25K, and well above it at $30K. That would be $15/hr, 40 hours a week. If you worked 60 hours a week ($15hrs), you'd be at about $45K, or about $20K yearly above the poverty line. In any event, I see no reason anyone would need to work 80 hours, unless they were making closer to $7.50 an hour.
P.S.: Is it possible to live further up in the mountains, such that it's cooler at night? That would seem like a good solution to the heat problem. This definitely seem possible on B.I., just not sure about Oahu and other islands. But I'd much rather have a few blankets, and maybe a wood-burning stove, vs. having to run my A.C. at night to sleep.
Some people do work 80 hours a week. A couple weeks ago I worked about 80 hours. 40 hours at my regular job, 40 hours photographing a kids' rodeo then editing photos. Not a single person bought any pictures so I didn't make any money for all that work. All I got was praise for my "amazing" photos and a bunch of people who said they were going to buy but didn't follow through.
I don't know about the Big Island, but on Maui rents have skyrocketed. It costs a lot to live up in Makawao, and then if your job is where most jobs are, you have to spend a lot more on gas especially because of the uphill drive. It also puts a lot of wear on your car.
Neither soy milk, nor coconut milk, or any kind of substitute is cheaper than cow milk in Hawaii. I don't know what fantasy land these people are living in. Coconut milk is also high in saturated fat and low in nutrients.
Uhh, places where the following condition apply?
"The densely populated portions of East Asia have never had much pasture land for grazing cattle or other milk animals, nor have they been able or willing to afford the luxury of feeding a milk cow 4 pounds of grains and soy protein to get 1 pound of milk protein in return. By contrast, the soybean produces more protein (as in the form of soymilk) per unit area of land than any other conventional farm crop. Thus soymilk provides more nutrition from less land at lower cost than dairy milk"
Again, even if Hawaii costs twice as much as the Mainland, then you should be above the poverty line at about $25K, and well above it at $30K. That would be $15/hr, 40 hours a week. If you worked 60 hours a week ($15hrs), you'd be at about $45K, or about $20K yearly above the poverty line. In any event, I see no reason anyone would need to work 80 hours, unless they were making closer to $7.50 an hour.
P.S.: Is it possible to live further up in the mountains, such that it's cooler at night? That would seem like a good solution to the heat problem. This definitely seem possible on B.I., just not sure about Oahu and other islands. But I'd much rather have a few blankets, and maybe a wood-burning stove, vs. having to run my A.C. at night to sleep.
One needs to be careful about generalizing "Hawaii costs twice as much as the mainland" - Each island has its own dynamics. Oahu has expensive real estate but relatively stable prices for everything else. Outer islands have "cheaper" real estate but everthing else is more expensive.
The bigger issue is wages - lets take Oahu for example. Cost of living is comparable in many ways to the SF Bay Area - but the wage structure doesn't come close, you often make 30% or more less in SF. Even minimum wage is almost 30% higher in SF. And if SF, if you make $45K, you can mitigate that by living in the suburbs and using public transportation. Oahu is a small island with limited transportation options - you have fewer options to mitigate your lowed wages. (And yes, many make close that $7.25/hr wage versus $10.24 min wage in SF). Lets say you mitigate by living on an outer island - now you have the issue of work. What do you do for a living?
I'll speak for Oahu - "living up in the mountains" isn't an option - first, the mountains aren't high enough to make a huge difference on the temperature and many of the higher elevation places are expensive and desireable such as in the Hawaii Kai area. If you want cooler, you can try windward and some find the breezes fine for no AC. Of course, just saw on the news this morning, no trades until at least Sunday - so it is going to be warm for everyone.
One needs to be careful about generalizing "Hawaii costs twice as much as the mainland" - Each island has its own dynamics. Oahu has expensive real estate but relatively stable prices for everything else. Outer islands have "cheaper" real estate but everthing else is more expensive.
The bigger issue is wages - lets take Oahu for example. Cost of living is comparable in many ways to the SF Bay Area - but the wage structure doesn't come close, you often make 30% or more less in SF. Even minimum wage is almost 30% higher in SF. And if SF, if you make $45K, you can mitigate that by living in the suburbs and using public transportation. Oahu is a small island with limited transportation options - you have fewer options to mitigate your lowed wages. (And yes, many make close that $7.25/hr wage versus $10.24 min wage in SF). Lets say you mitigate by living on an outer island - now you have the issue of work. What do you do for a living?
I'll speak for Oahu - "living up in the mountains" isn't an option - first, the mountains aren't high enough to make a huge difference on the temperature and many of the higher elevation places are expensive and desireable such as in the Hawaii Kai area. If you want cooler, you can try windward and some find the breezes fine for no AC. Of course, just saw on the news this morning, no trades until at least Sunday - so it is going to be warm for everyone.
Thanks for the Oahu wind/mountain info, Viper. It looks like windward might be a good option for both breezes and lushness (definitely my preference, I hate dry terrain, and don't mind rain.)
Couple follow-up questions:
1. Are there any places in the hills where accessibility is tough enough to bring down real estate prices? (steep slopes, not many roads, etc.)
2. How does the North Shore fare in terms of breezes? Anything, or just dry/humid? I guess North Windward wouldn't be too far from N.S.
I understand I can't generalize excessively about Hawaii, it just sounds like in most places, it's not going to be more than 2x as much as typical mainland cost of living. So that could provide a rough shorthand for people considering the move. And this is again primarily useful for someone who has a job lined up at a certain wage. If you know you're going to be making $30K on the Island, you should understand that may mean closer to $15K in conventional terms. (Above poverty level, but pretty tight.) $60K would be closer to $30K, etc.
Obviously, someone with no job lined up at all should understand that unskilled wages are also relatively low, in conjunction with the high prices.
Finally, the dynamic again changes for someone in more of a retirement situation, who has enough money to buy a home and some savings/income to live off, who doesn't need to work, etc. If you don't need to work, and don't want/need to be near a larger city, then you can look for the cheapest real estate anywhere on the Islands (somewhere that stays mild, or usually has good breezes), buy a fixer-upper, invest in a quality solar panel (& maybe wind) array, and presumably end up with a *relatively* low monthly nut thereafter. I understand this would be most feasible on the B.I., but I assume there are also some other possibilities elsewhere.
Some people do work 80 hours a week. A couple weeks ago I worked about 80 hours. 40 hours at my regular job, 40 hours photographing a kids' rodeo then editing photos. Not a single person bought any pictures so I didn't make any money for all that work. All I got was praise for my "amazing" photos and a bunch of people who said they were going to buy but didn't follow through.
I don't know about the Big Island, but on Maui rents have skyrocketed. It costs a lot to live up in Makawao, and then if your job is where most jobs are, you have to spend a lot more on gas especially because of the uphill drive. It also puts a lot of wear on your car.
Wink, you clearly get a lot of abuse on this forum, and I apologize for piling on. Going by your posts (and the fact you still live on Hawaii, I have to conclude that you're someone who really loves being there, and is just frustrated by the fact you can't live the same lifestyle you could on the Mainland for the same salary. I think we all know what it's like to be in that situation, with a relationship or something else, where you really love aspects of it, but can't stand others, and end up being torn.
I don't know what your salary is, but I assume those who normally work 80 hours probably earn under $10 an hour generally. (Sounds like 80 is an aberration for yourself, though I commend the ambition.) Maybe try reducing the price on the photos? I've found the first step of starting a successful side business is to develop the clients and references, often by offering very low prices, which you can always raise as you get more established. Presumably you enjoy photography, so you can factor that into your initial pricing analysis.
I do still have a couple specific Q's for you, just to get a sense of your own standards. At what income point would you say someone stops being "poor" in Hawaii? And how much income or wealth would you have to have there, in your opinion, to be comfortable/rich? Just to get a reference point.
1. Are there any places in the hills where accessibility is tough enough to bring down real estate prices? (steep slopes, not many roads, etc.)
2. How does the North Shore fare in terms of breezes? Anything, or just dry/humid? I guess North Windward wouldn't be too far from N.S.
The North Shore only has about 5 zip codes - I'd go to http://www.realtor.com or Zillow - Real Estate, Homes for Sale, Recent Sales, Apartment Rentals to get an idea of real esate costs. Plug in the zio codes to narrow your search. Speaking for Oahu - it is a highly developed island - I doubt there are inaccessable road areas but you find those places on the outer islands.
The North Shore whether isn't as wet as true windwards areas but it is breezy and is wetter than leeward areas. The North Shore is great on Oahu - you just can't commute from there into Honolulu.
Wink, you clearly get a lot of abuse on this forum, and I apologize for piling on. Going by your posts (and the fact you still live on Hawaii, I have to conclude that you're someone who really loves being there, and is just frustrated by the fact you can't live the same lifestyle you could on the Mainland for the same salary. I think we all know what it's like to be in that situation, with a relationship or something else, where you really love aspects of it, but can't stand others, and end up being torn.
I don't know what your salary is, but I assume those who normally work 80 hours probably earn under $10 an hour generally. (Sounds like 80 is an aberration for yourself, though I commend the ambition.) Maybe try reducing the price on the photos? I've found the first step of starting a successful side business is to develop the clients and references, often by offering very low prices, which you can always raise as you get more established. Presumably you enjoy photography, so you can factor that into your initial pricing analysis.
I do still have a couple specific Q's for you, just to get a sense of your own standards. At what income point would you say someone stops being "poor" in Hawaii? And how much income or wealth would you have to have there, in your opinion, to be comfortable/rich? Just to get a reference point.
My photos are very cheap-- $5 for two 4x6 prints, $7 for two 5x7, etc. They all come with digital versions too. I think that selling to individuals at rodeos is just a bad business model, because it takes a lot of people buying to make it worth spending a whole weekend photographing plus another couple days processing. It's not like other sports where it only takes a couple hours. If I could make $200 per day it would be great.
Personally, if I was making $50k here I'd be content. At that income level I'd be able to do things normal people do... like get repairs done on my car and take a trip every year or two to the mainland.
It's not necessarily true that people working 80 hours are making under $10/hr. I know a lot of county workers also own businesses because I see the decals on their cars.
Last edited by winkosmosis; 06-16-2012 at 08:08 PM..
The North Shore is great on Oahu - you just can't commute from there into Honolulu.
I know four people who live on the north shore (two in Wailua, the other in Haleiwa, and other by sunset beach) all commute each day into downtown for work. Two drive, the others take the bus. It may not be conceivable for you to do it, but I assure you many people do. Each day. These all are locals, born and raised there btw.
Surprising what people will do to earn a salary and live where they feel best for them.
I know four people who live on the north shore (two in Wailua, the other in Haleiwa, and other by sunset beach) all commute each day into downtown for work. Two drive, the others take the bus. It may not be conceivable for you to do it, but I assure you many people do. Each day. These all are locals, born and raised there btw.
Surprising what people will do to earn a salary and live where they feel best for them.
Next you'll be telling us they are all content at $15/hr and enjoy the up to a 2 hour commute each direction.
You can assure me all you want. Some do it. Many on a regular basis. No way.
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If I didn't have A/C in my bedroom I'd never be able to sleep.
