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But back to science and math based degrees, the education level of the local workforce does affect what sort of businesses will move into the area. There is about zero chance of any heavy manufacturing coming to Hawaii because of shipping in and out of all components. So a company that needs grunt labor isn't going to move to Hawaii, no matter how many file clerks or hula dancers the school system turns out.
If there is a large enough population of trained students who can work in depth on computers, have an understanding of higher mathematics or the sciences, then it might be possible to attract in businesses who deal with information as their final product. Hawaii already is one of the premier places to do any space research; that is science, and the observatories won't be hiring any hula dancers.
If a company that needs 100 employees who can work advanced quantum mechanics thinks Hawaii might be a nice place to set up a shop and all they can find are hula dancers and day laborers, they aren't moving to Hawaii. Having a population of science and math trained students is the only way to attract information based businesses.
As for IT techs, well, as my computer programer cousin says "any high school student these days can do the job that I used to get paid a fortune to do". If there are tons of people who can do the job, then it won't be high paid. That's the basic law of supply and demand.
Well there are companies that hire tech and science workers, and they pay low salaries.
Supply and demand do matter but only to a point. There is a huge supply of people who can do "unskilled" manual labor, yet those jobs pay more than tech jobs, especially in government.
Why isn't anyone telling kids to forget about college and get low-stress better-paying jobs as laborers or tradesmen or hula dancers?
Many parents want to insure the best possibilities for their children, and college helps open doors. I know of many employed college educated folks, who are holding jobs where a college education is a requirement. Yes, you can become an honorable laborer or tradesman, all employment is to be respected. But having a college degree will open the door, in many cases, to advancing up the chain. We encourage our children to get a college education, if they choose that path, because we want the best and most opportunities for them ... we know they have 40+ years of employment ahead of them, and want the most number of doors to swing open, not slam shut. Having a college education also helps to provide an expanded perspective of the world. There is more to an education than just the dollars it could bring through higher paychecks.
Many parents want to insure the best possibilities for their children, and college helps open doors. I know of many employed college educated folks, who are holding jobs where a college education is a requirement. Yes, you can become an honorable laborer or tradesman, all employment is to be respected. But having a college degree will open the door, in many cases, to advancing up the chain. We encourage our children to get a college education, if they choose that path, because we want the best and most opportunities for them ... we know they have 40+ years of employment ahead of them, and want the most number of doors to swing open, not slam shut. Having a college education also helps to provide an expanded perspective of the world. There is more to an education than just the dollars it could bring through higher paychecks.
But how do you feel knowing that your children can get an education in a tech or science field, but not be able to get a job that even pays enough to get by? Do you show your children the job listings for those jobs in Hawaii so they know that they'll have to get jobs in big mainland cities?
Right now there's a effort in Hawaii to get school kids to go into "STEM" fields - Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics. But it seems to me that the people pushing STEM are out of touch with reality and the fact that education and white collar skills just aren't valued in Hawaii. Sure, you can go into STEM and if you're lucky get a job in your field instead of waiting tables, but it will pay LESS than waiting tables, or building cabinets, or digging ditches, or whatever. I really don't understand why.
A college education can give a lifetime of hiring and advancement advantages. A college education can offer a wider view of the world. A college education is one way helping to equip a person with an advance skill set and larger base of life experiences.
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Originally Posted by winkosmosis
But how do you feel knowing that your children can get an education in a tech or science field, but not be able to get a job that even pays enough to get by?
It is not the "only way" to succeed in finding happiness in life. But obtaining a college education has worked well for my family's younger generation here in Hawaii. And so far, none have moved to the mainland due to financial problems.
But at the same time, people need to be wise in where they choose to live in order to maximize their employment possibilities. Would a science based major have the most opportunities working for the state of Hawaii on Maui, or Maui County, for example? Perhaps not. They might want to head to Oahu or the Big Island, and not limit their search to just state jobs.
The will to live in Hawaii is just that ... for most it means having adaptability and planning. One person's lack of success does not predict that outcome for all. Yes many college educated transplants do not stay in Hawaii, and some Hawaii-born college grads move to the mainland for opportunities there, but in all those, I'd venture that having a college education has served most of them well regardless.
Last edited by CyberCity; 10-17-2012 at 04:38 PM..
A college education can give a lifetime of hiring and advancement advantages. A college education can offer a wider view of the world. A college education is one way helping to equip a person with an advance skill set and larger base of life experiences.
I have to disagree with this. We spend 12 years in grade school, we don't need another 4-6 years to get a wider view of the world. Read a book. Heck, read Wikipedia!
Keep in mind, you have to pay for college somehow.
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It is not the "only way" to succeed in finding happiness in life. But obtaining a college education has worked well for my family's younger generation here in Hawaii. And so far, none have moved to the mainland due to financial problems.
But at the same time, people need to be wise in where they choose to live in order to maximize their employment possibilities. Would a science based major have the most opportunities working for the state of Hawaii on Maui, or Maui County, for example? Perhaps not. They might want to head to Oahu or the Big Island, and not limit their search to just state jobs.
The will to live in Hawaii is just that ... for most it means having adaptability and planning. One person's lack of success does not predict that outcome for all. Yes many college educated transplants do not stay in Hawaii, and some Hawaii-born college grads move to the mainland for opportunities there, but in all those, I'd venture that having a college education has served most of them well regardless.
But you're missing the point. In every other state, getting a professional job with your college degree means you can afford to buy a house, raise a family, etc. Hawaii is the only state where you can get that professional job, but still be living in poverty. This isn't a question of number of jobs, that's a topic for another thread. The issue is that the jobs that do exist are too low paid. This is even as employers complain they can't find good skilled workers.
The issue is that the jobs that do exist are too low paid. This is even as employers complain they can't find good skilled workers.
This would be a good question for you to ask the Hawaii politicians during the current discussions and debates going on right now. Here is a link to send a question for the upcoming Hirono/Lingle debate:
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October 22: Hawaii News Now: If you have a question for the candidates, you can send them to us in the newsroom at news@hawaiinewsnow.com.
Sorry if I'm reviving an old thread, but what's the barrier for Hawaii STEM grads going freelance or forming startups on shoestring budgets if comparable employment prospects pay so low but they don't want to leave HI?
There are now a number of freelance tech sites and app stores from every major tech companies for everything like mobile apps to MS Office apps that make work in various tech areas very location agnostic - i.e. Hawaii tech people would be earning the same rate as tech people doing the same gigs whether in SF, Seattle or Portland. It can even be argued that an app targeted for tourists in HI may sell more copies than a comparable app targeted for tourists in Seattle considering how much more tourists go to HI. Ditto, marine robotics might be more conducive (e.g. less concern about hypothermia) to engage in HI with robotics in general starting to get cheaper and more mainstream.
Sorry if I'm reviving an old thread, but what's the barrier for Hawaii STEM grads going freelance or forming startups on shoestring budgets if comparable employment prospects pay so low but they don't want to leave HI?
There really is no "barrier" - working as a contractor is a very scary proposition for the majority of people and they don't want to lose the safety net of weekly wages and benefits.
You could really ask that question in any of the 50 states.
I'll edit to add - if you grew up in Hawaii, the pay for STEM grads for many is fine - even better with fine. Some who grow up here move to the mainland for awhile - not so much for the money - but for the experience, and move back.
The money issue impacts mainland transplants very hard - they often can't adjust their lifestyle and get frustrated with Bay Area cost of living at half the pay.
There really is no "barrier" - working as a contractor is a very scary proposition for the majority of people and they don't want to lose the safety net of weekly wages and benefits.
You could really ask that question in any of the 50 states.
I'll edit to add - if you grew up in Hawaii, the pay for STEM grads for many is fine - even better with fine. Some who grow up here move to the mainland for awhile - not so much for the money - but for the experience, and move back.
The money issue impacts mainland transplants very hard - they often can't adjust their lifestyle and get frustrated with Bay Area cost of living at half the pay.
I was trying to make the point that regardless of location, a fair number of STEM graduates (especially fresh graduates who are not yet saddled with mortgages, etc) - in part due to the economy but also due to unprecedented options these days to more cheaply develop products and put their products in front of global markets (through stores by AAPL, AMZN, MSFT, GOOG, etc) - voluntarily take on tech entrepreneurship and still have good chances to earn like the Bay Area or Seattle folks who engaged in comparable ventures.
Why would Hawaii STEM graduates be any different? Are there really valid, Hawaii-only conditions that make it more difficult for local STEM graduates to take these ventures (assuming we are addressing the same percentage of risk takers in HI as those that did the same in Seattle or SF)? I'm curious if this is the case.
If not, then taking STEM courses actually makes more sense in Hawaii as it opens up opportunities outside of traditional employment based choices.
As mentioned, no barriers in Hawaii exist that are different than the mainland.
The culture of Hawaii however is way more risk averse than the Bay Area.
Many contractors in IT enjoy rates over $100/hr in Hawaii. You just have to weigh the risk/reward.
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