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You act as if the United States are the only ones who have done this. If you are wanting to go back into the past and correct wrongs that were done, then you must do it fairly and across the board to everyone equally. Are you willing to do that?
The OP was askin.... How Come United States have control of the Hawaii Islands? I am here to tell the different side of the story, some even say its the truth.
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Originally Posted by McFrostyJ
You act as if the United States are the only ones who have done this:
And what did the US do?? If the US did wrong...... in Hawaii time frame aside, shouldn't they correct it? Or is there a statute of limitation? whats the price of a Kingdom?
I believe that drones are illegal.... does the US care? I also believe that the spying of NSA is illegal. will it stop? I think not. As much as there is an illegal occupation of Hawaii.... The US does what it wants
As much as I would like to see all past wrongs undone, US or other wise across the world, thats a tuff one!!!
Legally thats an easy answer. politically..... almost impossible. for the US to walk away from Hawaii and all its resources.. ouch. First education... telling the people exactly what happen.
The funny is when I ask a foreigner about how Hawaii Became a state, most assume something all legit. Some say they learned in the history books. Then you get the ones who know...... They know the truth.
McfrostyJ i think what your tripping over is a fear of losing something or not getting something?
Nope! What I am afraid of is trying to correct a wrong that was done my committing yet another wrong act.
I am all for learning from the past in order to try and make a better future by not creating the same mistakes. However, taking something from someone today because people who haven't been around for many, many decades did something wrong, is also wrong.
Here is your biggest problem. If you are going to do this and you are a fair person, then you MUST do this in every case and you can't because how would you ever know for sure who the very first original occupants were? Let's pretend that you could find out beyond a shadow of a doubt who the original occupants were, guess what, they are all dead! Should you then give it to their ancestors? But wait, everyone is so mixed these days, who would deserve what? For example, you have said that you are half Caucasian and half Native American. If we were to give back the land that was taken by your Caucasian ancestors and give it to the ancestors of your Native American tribe, where would that leave you? If you are going to blame the people of today for the mistakes of the people of the past, then you are both a thief and a victim. I guess you would have to take from your left pocket and put it into your right pocket.
The OP was askin.... How Come United States have control of the Hawaii Islands? I am here to tell the different side of the story, some even say its the truth.
Ok, but if you are going to follow the truth, then it is only fair to follow the truth all the way back to the original wrong and in every case equally. If not, then you are just committing another wrong unfair act and haven't learned anything from history.
But like ive said before in other threads on this topic, one has to believe there was a reasonable doubt that Hawai'i was dealt with in a ethical manner and one has to believe that the U.S may have done something wrong? Even before there is discussion of setting things right and from what i hear there is neither.
Truth be told we weren't there when it happened, but its safe to believe with reason that what happened to the sovereign nation of Hawai'i wasn't ethical or fairminded. What proof?
1) The hostile takeover and imprisonment of the queen.
2) Lack of treaty of annexation.
3) Other letters expressing intent of Hawai'i to stay sovereign by the queen before and after annexation.
4) US history before and after Hawai'i. In treatment of native americans, vietnam, korea, afghanistan, iraq. Other sovereign nations we have invaded or attacked for whatever self justifiable excuses.
Truth be told we weren't there when it happened, but its safe to believe with reason that what happened to the sovereign nation of Hawai'i wasn't ethical or fairminded. What proof?
1) The hostile takeover and imprisonment of the queen.
2) Lack of treaty of annexation.
3) Other letters expressing intent of Hawai'i to stay sovereign by the queen before and after annexation.
4) US history before and after Hawai'i. In treatment of native americans, vietnam, korea, afghanistan, iraq. Other sovereigny nations we have invaded or attacked for whatever self justifiable excuses.
Alright, but then IF you are a fair person, you can't stop there. Please, keep going back into history and find the original occupants that were done wrong. Then don't stop in Hawaii, go around the globe. Once you do that and find a place for everyone who is now on earth to go, then I will get behind you.
I wonder what the moon is like this time of year and can we all live there when the earth is given back to a bunch of dead people?
Alright, but then IF you are a fair person, you can't stop there. Please, keep going back into history and find the original occupants that were done wrong. Then don't stop in Hawaii, go around the globe. Once you do that and find a place for everyone who is now on earth to go, then I will get behind you.
I wonder what the moon is like this time of year and can we all live there when the earth is given back to a bunch of dead people?
You can jest all you want, its really not as difficult as your making it to be. It could be as simple as letting the Kanaka Moali vote on what they want without trying to tip the scales in your favor by having every military guy, mainlander vote which of course will obviously tip the scales in favor of what special interests in the U.S wantted all along.
And who knows, the Kanaka Moali my just say we prefer things the way they are. Then at least we know we didn't load the dice. Further i can get a room of 3/4ths Yankee fans and
Truth i doubt there would be other claims besides Tibet and Tai Won.
Sorry, but you are seriously, seriously mistaken on this point. I'd flip the question back over to you. Is there a national border for a sovereign nation you know of anywhere on the planet that has not been disputed, and moved around, and in many cases had that happen over and over and over again, sometimes accompanied by millions of deaths? Governments, regimes, monarchies, dictatorships, fiefdoms, you name it! They are all subject to change... sometimes voluntarily, sometimes violently. In hotspots like the Middle East, the border are in almost a perpetual state of flux.
Seriously, there are roughly 200 countries in the world today, and I can't think of more than a handful that still have the same borders and the same government they did 300 years ago. As a race, humans are quite prone to territorial disputes.
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If there are for other nations then it will be the illegal occupying countries to responsibility correct there wrongs.
And we've got a large organization called the United Nations that devotes a lot of time and energy and money to trying to sorting out those very questions all around the world. I'll leave it to you to figure out how effective that is.
And while you are thinking about that, you might also think about why ANYBODY would want to restore a monarchy in Hawai'i? Seriously! Give that some thought and report back. For extra credit, look up Winston Churchill's quote that starts "Democracy is the worst form of government..."
Oh, and here's another good one to contemplate... let's say that by some miracle the US Government held a fair and open election to determine the future of Hawai'i, and by some additional miracle... really, this is pretty much in the domain of alternate reality fiction, but lets roll with it... say the separatists won the election, and the US withdrew, and the entire economy collapsed... that's pretty much guaranteed... and then some other country decided to invade, to secure the strategic military position the islands provide, using modern military weapons, which the Kingdom of Hawai'i would not possess...
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