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...First off we are not living in the past, can you trace any native hawaiian or native american issue today that startted from the actions of the overthrow of the native hawaiian kingdom or conquering of native american indians?...
I think that if you would stop trying to separate people based on the color of a person's skin and start looking at human issues, maybe then you could do more good.
Just a suggestion.
Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart
The attitudes of majority of locals regarding alot of there neighborhoods was no to big box stores or really big changes,
How do you know this is a fact? When were you last in Hawaii talking to people who were born and raised there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart
@OpenD
How do you know this is a fact? When were you last in Hawaii talking to people who were born and raised there?
Uhmmm you know we have kanaka moali and locals on the mainland right? Almost becoming a normal everyday event to run into one everyday. You are aware people from hawaii voice there opinions on websites
...Continued...
And news articles? Also there are other forums and websites other then CDF Hawaii with old locals who talk about the changes and the attitudes of locals on the changes. Kinda one reason people no vote etc, no faith in a system that isnt interested in there issues. Sorry OpenD no go.
See what I mean about how you're confused about who said what, slashing out at the wrong people over and over? It was McFrosty who asked you the questions you quoted, not me. And you KNOW I know the answers to those questions, so there's no reason for me to ask them of you. If you were thinking clearly you would not keep making that kind of mistake.
Seriously, I think you are losing it, and you really should take a break.
See what I mean about how you're confused about who said what, slashing out at the wrong people over and over? It was McFrosty who asked you the questions you quoted, not me. And you KNOW I know the answers to those questions, so there's no reason for me to ask them of you. If you were thinking clearly you would not keep making that kind of mistake.
Seriously, I think you are losing it, and you really should take a break.
Oh come on OpenD! Stop trying to shift the blame to me you crazy haole!
I think that if you would stop trying to separate people based on the color of a person's skin and start looking at human issues, maybe then you could do more good.
Just a suggestion.
I haven't made this a race thing only in regards to the victems and history. If i came to you and said that more african american males committ and die in drive by shootings then anyother race, am i being racist? No im stating a fact. Now if i said african americans are the only violent people then yes thats racist. If i said they are the most violent compared to other races in regards to drive by shootings? Again im stating facts and not being racist. I agree i hate race based politics but its difficult to ignore that in this issue its prominently a race or two who are victems and suffered the most loss, damages etc.
See what I mean about how you're confused about who said what, slashing out at the wrong people over and over? It was McFrosty who asked you the questions you quoted, not me. And you KNOW I know the answers to those questions, so there's no reason for me to ask them of you. If you were thinking clearly you would not keep making that kind of mistake.
Seriously, I think you are losing it, and you really should take a break.
Sorry OpenD, my eyesight isnt the greatest and im trying to keep up with everyone. Im sorry i goofed, no hard feelings?
Well, this is actually one of the big misconceptions of the sovereignty movement, as far as I'm concerned. The commoners and Chiefs didn't own land under the traditional Hawaiian system, and even later, nobody lost any owned property in the 1893 overthrow or subsequent annexation.
The King owned the land, within our current understanding of the concept of ownership, because he had sole authority to sell off chunks of it to foreign investors... which they did as they pleased. And that and taxation built the great wealth that royalty enjoyed. One example being the Bishop Estate, worth $10 Billion, which is still one of the largest landowners in Hawai'i, created at the bequest of Princess Bernice Pauahi Bishop, the great-granddaughter of King Kamehameha the Great (Kam I). Seems to me the whole principle of wealth inequality was invented by the royalty system.
Commoners, on the other hand, were allowed to live on the land, not own it, at the direction and discretion of the Chiefs, and they could be made to move if they did something to upset the Chief... or if the Chief did something to upset the King.
Taxation on the commoners was horrendous. Not only did they owe three days of free labor a month to working for the royalty, such as building fish ponds and temples, but if they grew food on the land, such as kalo (taro), they only got to keep 1/3 of the harvest for themselves; and if they tended the royal fish ponds, they could not eat the fish. The chiefs took a big cut off the top of all the taxes, and the rest went to the King.
I can see why someone would want to restore that system if they were a descendant of Hawaiian royalty and thought they had some claim on the riches to be made in the current day. Even a descendant of the "Nobility," the Chiefs of the day might hope to get their fingers in the pie if only the pre-1893 government was to be restored. But just regular ol' kanaka maoli folks? What do they stand to gain personally from restoring the monarchy? Nothing that I can see, because they have no personal claim on anything.
PS, in the current headlines, now that King Carlos of Spain has announced his abdication from the throne, thousands of demonstrators are marching the streets in Spain, demanding the monarchy be abolished and the country be run from now on as a democracy. You know... the system the US uses... because it is the fairest way to govern a nation.
you can claim anything you want..... stolen lands... show me title how did the federal and state governments acquire lands?
If you say the system was bad.. thats your call..... we talking about the overthrow right?? it was soo bad the with the help of the US some business men made it better, Nawt...
I think that if you would stop trying to separate people based on the color of a person's skin and start looking at human issues, maybe then you could do more good.
Just a suggestion.
The US should start doing this.... everyone that looks like Obama is labeled as taliban... what are their human issues? Iraq and Afghanistan " Yankee Go Home"
The US should start doing this.... everyone that looks like Obama is labeled as taliban... what are their human issues? Iraq and Afghanistan " Yankee Go Home"
Kawana your kanaka maoli and a ol *** local lol right? Tell me how does your ohana and friends feel about oahu looking more like the mainland everyday and local oahu disappearing? Are they upset? are they happy about it? Or they shrug there shoulders in an unemotional response because they know they can't change it?
My theory is whats happening to oahu is the samething that happened with the hawaiian kingdom. Profits and money comes before human rights and wishes of people.
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