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I really take offense to some of the comments I have been reading lately regarding people moving from the mainland and how they are viewed and treated. What right does anyone have to tell anyone where they may or may not belong or where they should live or how they should act for the matter? I find this rather disturbing in this land of freedom. How the few here can speak so freely for the entire state of Hawaii, is just amazing. I know several persons from the mainland living on several different islands and none of them have seen any of the issues regarding mainlanders being talked about on this board (I’m sure it does exist, but I don’t believe it’s the norm) Frankly I am sick and tired of all the negative comments here and I really wish it would just stop. This board has such great information and I have enjoyed and learned much but all this “mainlander” nonsense is just so annoying. Personally, I am moving to Hawaii, I don't care who likes it or not, if you feel I don’t belong there, this is your issue NOT MINE. I respect all and I EXPECT to be treated that exact same way. You see “respect” is a two way street, period. If we can’t respect each other because of some issues you have with the color of my skin, or where I come from than once again this is your problem not mine, and I will stay clear of you because you are not the type of person I can respect or would want to associate myself with. Gosh this is Hawaii we are talking about people. I can't see why some are so uptight and hell bent on trying to make us think or believe our lives will be in danger, we will get jumped by the Hawaiian population, or gangs will chase us down the streets and do us bodily harm or beat up our children just for being from the mainland or for having a different color skin. I don’t think I have ever heard so many comments regarding race/mainlanders in the six years I have been checking out internet Hawaiian forums get so “beat to death” as on this specific board. Hawaii is part of the United States….like it or not, so everything goes as on the mainland…..like it or not. I truly believe Aloha is alive and well and I really, really believe it’s not confined to the negative persons posted on internet forums. It's sad really and I imagine those who post in the most negative manner must get a buzz by making themselves feel superior by giving people doubts when that is just not necessary.
If we can all be a peace with each here in cyberspace than maybe “reality” will be a better place as well.
Yes, the Buddha taught us forgiveness and loving kindness to help end our suffering. The Kuna of the Hawaiians teaches us to cure hala with kala. That is, to untie the bindings of wrong doings that have been suffered against you and your ancestors and forgive the debt and end the cycle of violence.
You will not find peace even in the most beautiful paradise if you are dragging along your hala.
This is true when you travel and move anywhere I have seen. Take language as a basic example. If I was traveling to China I would learn Chinese. I can drop my English but not loose it. English is important because it helps you understand the Chinese and Chinese is important because it helps you understand the people. But it not only helps you understand where the bathroom is, it also helps you understand the culture.
Look at the difference in a greeting you give and receive in most English speaking places. We say "Hi". But in Hawaii we say "Aloha". "Hi" is a simple greeting which evolved from "hey", a simple way to get attention. But to the kahuna Aloha is also a spiritual message that can bring self-perfection, used as a greeting, you are sharing the breath of life to make each others lives better.
So yes, leave what you know on the mainland, it will be safe there.
Respectfully I would always say Aloha, that’s just common sense (a little something I’ve learned on the mainland).
I have been all over the South Pacific and have always adapted very well to my surroundings. Once, my husband and I visited a tiny Atoll (within the Cook Island Group) and we were the only people from New York to have ever stepped foot on that Atoll. Our account of this trip was published in the South Pacific Handbook (Moon Publications). This atoll was not a tourist destination and one had to be invited by someone. Being we developed close bonds to several people from Rarotonga we, were very honored to have been given the chance to stay in a family's home for 10 days. I know what it is to be respectful of other cultures and the ways that are unfamiliar to me, but you adapt and just do the proper thing (wow! yet another thing I picked up from the mainland) I guess it infuriates me to have someone tell me to leave what I know on the mainland....I don't think so because it will come in handy and it's a part of who I am, my being. It's like asking me to leave my soul there too, it's just me, all of me.
All places in Polynesia have been colonized yet the natives are in reality much more gracious than what you are making the native Hawaiians out to be. Native Hawaiians should be insulted by the way they are being portrayed on these boards, as if they are incapable of making a personal individual judgment in relation to another human being.
Enough said from me on this topic and peace be with all.
Last edited by Frangi914; 12-16-2007 at 07:49 AM..
"But we especially hate people who feel the need to bring up the subject of race in every single sentence, or imply it in every aspect of thier life."
Obviously you have never been treated differently for no other reason except for your skin color:
EVER WALK INTO A MALL WITH YOUR FRIENDS AND TOLD BY A SECURITY GUARD "YOU GUYS LOOK LIKE A GANG OR SOMETHING. BREAK IT UP OR LEAVE" (we were standing in one spot talking and waiting for a friend to come out of the bathroom)
EVER GO TO A GROCERY STORE AND STAND IN LINE WITH YOUR GROCERIES AND ARE IMMEDIATELY ASKED IF YOU WILL BE PAYING WITH FOOD STAMPS. (i have never been on welfare)
HOW OFTEN ARE YOU FOLLOWED AROUND THE STORE BY SECURITY GUARDS?
HOW OFTEN HAVE YOU BEEN PULLED OVER AND SEARCHED FOR DRUGS BECAUSE YOU DRIVE A REALLY NICE CAR?
I really just want to live in peace in a beautiful place that's all.
I think your concerns are valid. These are critical details to know about a place. Unfortunately, people who don't have to go through this don't know what it's like and disregard it. Pretty sad when people meet your concerns with indifference because they don't experience it. Hopefully, it works out for you. I wish I knew something to help. Reading your comments, I can relate with your concerns.
[color=black]I really take offense to some of the comments I have been reading lately regarding people moving from the mainland and how they are viewed and treated.
Dear Frangi,
I understand your concerns, but I don't think most of those who have told of racism here are to be blamed.
Racism exists everywhere. Being "different" is a hazard anywhere. If you are in the "majority", you probably don't see it, because very few in the majority exptess it, and of course not against another "majority". If you are in the mnority, sooner or later you will feel it. Like JoiM, who's black and who started this thread. Sad, but true. You can far lessen the chance it will be directed toward you by avoiding sending out signals that offend the majority. Being insensitive to local customs, for example. Problem is, you may not know the local customs.
If you have a light skin in Hawaii, you are a minority.
I've lived in Hawaii for thirty years over the last fifty, but I'm still an outsider in some ways. My children spent their formative years here, and were occasioally beat up by the "'Nalo"s (Kids from Waimanalo, a predominantly Hawaiian town near where we lived, Kailua, a predominantly Haole town).
I don't feel racism here, but I'm retired. I don't have to compete for a job, or for status when I have a job.
There can even be racism between parts of the "majority". I remember a time when I worked at the Naval Shipyard at Pearl Harbor in the mid-sixties. There seemed to be a problem between some of the secretaries. I asked some old timers, and was told that it was really a problem between the Chinese Secretaries and the Japanese Secretaries. One department of the Shipyard was largely made up of men of Japanese descent, and the secretaries in that department were largely of Japanese origin. Another Department was largely of Chinese origin. There was real animosity! Once again, sad but true.
You seem very sensitive to the "vibes" you will encounter, and will probably have no problem, but saying racism doesn't exist is not wise.
To go back to the original question, I would say that this is probably one of the best places to be a minority in the world. There is much less racism here than on the mainland, I believe. When I was stationed here, in the military in the sixties, this was the place to request if you were in a mixed marriage in the military. Such marriages are lots more common now, but in those days it could be hazardous to your life!
Yes, the Buddha taught us forgiveness and loving kindness to help end our suffering. The Kuna of the Hawaiians teaches us to cure hala with kala. That is, to untie the bindings of wrong doings that have been suffered against you and your ancestors and forgive the debt and end the cycle of violence.
You will not find peace even in the most beautiful paradise if you are dragging along your hala.
But we especially hate people who feel the need to bring up the subject of race in every single sentence, or imply it in every aspect of thier life.
It's interesting that you "speak for everyone"... "We" is often a very exclusive little club. But, since no one seems to know of "White Priveledge: Essential Readings on the Other Side of Racism" (by Peggy McIntosh,2005), I thought I'd let you in on the little secret...
If you are white, consider your answers to the following questions, and realise that you walk through life with an invisible knapsack, full of passports, code books and visas, of which you are meant to reamain oblivious...
THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT EACH DAY.... DO YOU?
1.) I can if, I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2.) If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
3.) I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
4.) I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harrassed.
5.) I can turn on the television or open the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented (note: meaning "niceities" or "human interest stories" or actual news--inner city crime reports do not count in this area)
6.) When I am told about our national heritage or "civilization" I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
7.) I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
8.) If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for any piece I write.
9.) I can go into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
10.) Whether I use checks, credit cards or cah, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliablity.
11.) I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
12.) I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes or not answer letters, without people attributing these choices to bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
13.) I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
14.) I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
15.) I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
16.) I can remain oblivious to the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
17.) I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies without being seen as a cultural outsider.
18.) I can be pretty sure that when I talk to the person "in charge" I will be facing a person of my own race.
19.) If a traffic cop pulls me over or the IRS auditd my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
20.) I can easily buy posters, postcards,picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
21.) I can go home from most meetings of orgainizations feeling tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.
22.) I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
23.) I can chose public accomodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
24.) I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work agaginst me.
25.) If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racist overtones.
26.) I can chose blemish cover or bandages (this goes for panty hose, too) in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
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No probems with racism here! Just relax, be nice, be happy and enjoy!
