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No, I was talking about the white coral sand found on most Hawaiian beaches. It's highly reflective.
Yes, this is exactly the point I was trying to make to the OP.
The single biggest factor affecting the intensity of the UV rays that tan us and burn us is the angle from the horizon, with 90 degrees being the maximum, because that's when those rays have the shortest distance to travel through the atmosphere. At lower angles in the sky the distance to the surface is longer, and the more UV that is filtered out.
But here's another way of explaining it which may communicate better...
And I was comparing the height of a July 4th Boston day to an October 20th Honolulu day and it's a fact the sun is higher on the July 4th Boston day and the hours of daylight within the Boston July day upon which the sun is as high in the sky as it is on the October 20th Honolulu Day, is not any fewer hours.
And I was comparing the height of a July 4th Boston day to an October 20th Honolulu day and it's a fact the sun is higher on the July 4th Boston day and the hours of daylight within the Boston July day upon which the sun is as high in the sky as it is on the October 20th Honolulu Day, is not any fewer hours.
Well Eric no matter who is right, i suggest you wear a good layer of sun tan lotion if you plan to visit Hawai'i, other wise you will be a pre-cooked meal for the cannibals. Trust me a trip to the emergency room because of major sunburn is not fun(my mainland auntie went) and can ruin a whole trip.
Auwe! Uhhmmppp anyone got A1, im out? Maybe teri be better eh?
OK, now that I'm finally clear that you want to know why the October sun in Hawai'i has a higher UV index and can can burn you faster than the July sun in Boston, even though they have similar high sun angles... i was already thinking possibly atmospheric effects might make the difference, such as cleaner air in Hawai'i, when I came across this flaw in your reasoning...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricS39
Hawaii is not likely an ozone thin region of the world because the ozone is thicker in the tropics and thinner in the arctic and Antarctic, with with exception of parts of the Southern Hemisphere such as Australia
But that's backwards:
Quote:
The ozone layer is typically thicker over the poles than over the equator for three reasons. First, there is a lack of sunlight during an arctic winter to break it down. Second, seasonal weather systems and wind patterns in the upper atmosphere push more ozone toward the poles in winter. Third, the vertical structure of the atmosphere affects thickness. Near the equator, the troposphere makes up about 18 kilometres of the atmosphere. At the poles, it thins to only 8-kilometres thick. The boundary between the layers, called the tropopause, slopes downward from the equator to the poles like the bottom of a swimming pool. Over the Arctic, at the deepest part of the "pool", the thicker stratosphere can hold more ozone than over the Tropics or middle latitudes. The atmosphere over the Arctic also holds more ozone than in the Antarctic, because stratospheric winds in the Southern Hemisphere are less effective at transporting ozone.
So my best guess is that since you don't have white sandy beaches in Boston to bounce the light around, and you have a thicker ozone layer to better temper the sun's rays, the only way you'll sunburn faster there is to fall asleep in a Tanfastique tanning bed.
OK, now that I'm finally clear that you want to know why the October sun in Hawai'i has a higher UV index and can can burn you faster than the July sun in Boston, even though they have similar high sun angles... i was already thinking possibly atmospheric effects might make the difference, such as cleaner air in Hawai'i, when I came across this flaw in your reasoning...
But that's backwards:
So my best guess is that since you don't have white sandy beaches in Boston to bounce the light around, and you have a thicker ozone layer to better temper the sun's rays, the only way you'll sunburn faster there is to fall asleep in a Tanfastique tanning bed.
I think your explanation was right that the tropopause is narrower near the Poles, BUT ozone over both the poles have massive depletion ...not to mention COLD air in the upper atmosphere is BAD for ozone
Surface Global warming and ozone depletion go together but For the upper atmosphere, that's global cooling going on and as a result of upper level cooling alongside surface global temperature rise, we have seen noctiluscent high altitude clouds over the continental US a few years back.
The reason ozone depletes in Antarctica is that the CFCs such as chlorine freeze because of the extreme sub-zero winters at the South Pole and in the ozone layer since these substances don't have to travel as far from the surface to get there, like you said. But once the warm spring sunlight returns, it is an ozone disaster as the chlorine chemicals are brought back to life
For northern hemisphere arctic, something different happens. the summer heat causes ozone thinning in the fall. This is because the upper atmosphere cools in fall while the ground is still warm due to seasonal lag. This causes ozone destruction from a cooling upper Atmosphere.
After winter the colder ground keeps the warm ozone intact and it strengthens over winter but spring in arctic is still bad due to albedo snow reflection.
Hawaii doesn't have a thin ozone at all. The surface is warm year round and the ozone layer is higher up so it's about the same tenperature as arctic ozone layer, but protected by fewer ground particles to destroy it
Hawaii human pollution gravitates towards the poles and then winds up in the arctic and Antarctic ozone
And having a low ozone layer is very dangerous because if you are actually in that ozone itself, you are getting the worst of the UV and the reason Ozone is our friend is that it puts up with all the UV so we don't have to face it instead. The ozone layer is more easily depleted at the Poles and it is not thinner in the tropics . It is higher up, which means it gets trapped farther up from where we walk
And having a low ozone layer is very dangerous because if you are actually in that ozone itself, you are getting the worst of the UV and the reason Ozone is our friend is that it puts up with all the UV so we don't have to face it instead. The ozone layer is more easily depleted at the Poles and it is not thinner in the tropics . It is higher up, which means it gets trapped farther up from where we walk
I've found a number of other references that say you're wrong again, but I won't bother posting them, since you don't really seem open to information that is in opposition to your beliefs.
It's been a while since we've had someone on here who asked a question, then argued with every answer offered. I'd forgotten how aggravating that can be. Personally I'm happy to have found an answer I can get behind when questioned by friends.
Whatever you wind up telling yourself is true about causation, just remember that the sun in Hawai'i can burn you worse in October than the sun in Boston can on the 4th of July. Plan accordingly.
Arctic gets ozone holes though and the risk of ozone not being present when the system is disrupted. But in a normal year, Hawaii gets thinner ozone than the arctic. Ozone in Hawaii is fairly uniform throughout the year with slightly less in late summer/fall than winter/spring
Ozone thinness in the tropics is a given though. But volatile changes in ozone are more a risk factor in the arctic but on average, yes I just learned the arctic is better ozone protected than the tropics
So I get it now
Unique to the South Pole is a massive Ozone Hole that means Southern Hemisphere spring instead of having the thickest ozone, gets a destroyed ozone instead.
The Arctic has a small ozone hole in some calendar years and others not.
Given no ozone hole, the thickness of ozone is MORE away from the tropics and thinner in the tropics.
But over Hawaii the ozone level is fairly consistent in all seasons as thin but present. So basically like the other poster said, the Hawaiian sun is always intense. In winter it's strong, in spring and summer and early fall it's FATALLY strong, late fall strong! Any time of year, sunscreen is essential
Here's something fun I turned up while researching this subject... a Motions of the Sun Simulator site that allows one to visualize the position of the sun in the sky for any time of the day, any day of the year, for any latitude, and even animate it if you wish. Wheeeeee...
I can't believe all the math you guys did. This is really simple.
In September, close to the equinox, the sun is perpendicular to the equator. That means at noon the sun is about 20 degrees south of overhead.
At the height of summer, the sun is at 22.5 degrees, so if Boston is 42 degrees, that means the sun is about 20 degrees south of overhead.
But the major factor is cloud cover. That's what changes everything and that's what isn't really predicted by weather forecasts because it varies on a micro-climate level. But typically the windward side is cloudy and the leeward side is sunny. I believe the northeast is cloudy much if not most of the time, even in summer.
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