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All i can say is the term of affordable housing comming from officials lips is a min of 100,000 to 125,000 year income to qualify. Now who makes 100,000 to 125,000k a year? Not majority of people in Hawaii. This is example of the paradise tax.
All i can say is the term of affordable housing comming from officials lips is a min of 100,000 to 125,000 year income to qualify. Now who makes 100,000 to 125,000k a year? Not majority of people in Hawaii. This is example of the paradise tax.
Uh. No. A husband and wife making $60,000 each can easily qualify for the median house on Oahu if they have good credit.
Uhm no only 30% of people in Hawaii makes over100,000k a year.
Honolulu teachers on average make $58,334
Honolulu police officers make on average $56,737
Honolulu fireman with 20 years experience makes $58,212
I guess I'll try this again - if a teacher making average salary and a fireman making average salary buy a median house on Oahu with good credit they can do so. The nearly $120K in combined income is sufficient.
I guess I'll try this again - if a teacher making average salary and a fireman making average salary buy a median house on Oahu with good credit they can do so. The nearly $120K in combined income is sufficient.
Lets try this again, if you have to have two incomes and get into debt to have good credit to rent an so called affordable housing unit. Its not affordable! Understand? When one time in history a one income family was sufficient to buy a home and survive. Understand? Hawaii has the highest cost for housing by far then the rest of the country. Not because of lack of housing but because its Hawaii! We could have enough housing to house the whole demand and it would still be the most expensive because its Hawaii! Understand? It the paradise tax, your paying for location(greed) not value. Understand?
I guess I'll try this again - if a teacher making average salary and a fireman making average salary buy a median house on Oahu with good credit they can do so. The nearly $120K in combined income is sufficient.
$120,000 annual income
$0 child support, car payment, credit cards, etc... (unlikely for 2 professionals but best case scenario)
4.5% interest rate for 30 years
$100,000 down payment (who the hell has $100k in the bank but why not?)
$2000 annual property taxes (Honolulu)
$1000 annual home owners insurance (Honolulu)
Given these parameters a couple making $120k could qualify for $603,271 house according to First Hawaiian Bank which is over $100k below median.
I think it is closer to $150k a year combined with about $150k cash for a down payment for a median home which was just listed at $719k by a previous poster. I say that from running various scenarios on the "how much house can I afford" calculator. But your point is taken, a family of 2 public employees could theoretically afford a median house under ideal circumstances.
Problem with that still is that Honolulu median per capita income is only $29,500
So if you plug in 2 median incomes into the calculator and a more realistic $50,000 down payment you can only afford a $267,000 house. That is assuming no car payments, no HOA, no PMI, and no other debt like student loans, child support, private school tuition, etc...
So local people pretty much get to own houses one of 4 ways because very few can actually afford those prices:
1) Live at home until they are in their 30's and save lots of money for a huge down payment.
2) Live in multi-generational housing which allows families to share housing costs.
3) Inherit a property from family that purchased back when houses were more affordable.
4) Take out a second mortgage, borrow money from family for down payment, or some other shortcut that lets you stretch yourself beyond what is traditionally recommended.
My wife and I ran all of these scenarios before we left. We were making 6 figures combined but if we wanted a family it was either move out of town and deal with the hellish commute, live with her parents, or raise a child in a small condo and figure out how to pay for private schools when the time came. We chose to leave. We could have done it but just decided our options were better elsewhere in the long run.
Lets try this again, if you have to have two incomes and get into debt to have good credit to rent an so called affordable housing unit. Its not affordable! Understand? When one time in history a one income family was sufficient to buy a home and survive. Understand? Hawaii has the highest cost for housing by far then the rest of the country. Not because of lack of housing but because its Hawaii! We could have enough housing to house the whole demand and it would still be the most expensive because its Hawaii! Understand? It the paradise tax, your paying for location(greed) not value. Understand?
How odd you don't seem to be reading anything very well -
I noted those incomes were sufficient for a median home on Oahu - which is certainly much higher than a what would be termed "affordable housing". There are dozens of listings in the $300K range on the west side - and a teacher or firefighter alone could afford that.
Again, you are wrong on facts. Hawaii does not have the highest housing "by far than the rest of the country". San Francisco (which isn't even the highest) has a median housing price of $1 million - certainly far higher than Honolulu. Manhattan is $972,000. San Jose is higher than Honolulu. Understand?
I agree. If you are going to try and fully meet demand, concentrated high rises is the only way to go. And we're also in agreement that building to try and meet demand will not bring down the prices. If you did get to that point, then you'd simply create more demand as more people could afford to buy.
The only way to reduce demand and bring down cost is to create barriers to entry into the market, as I suggested earlier with a two-pronged taxing strategy. It's just that no one would like that approach even though it would work. People would see that the very steps to limit growth and bring down price would simultaneously block them from moving to the island and that's where their interest would end.
The cost of housing in Hawaii has dropped in the past. In fact, 2008, 2009, 2010 were pretty good times to buy in Hawaii because of price drops. And those prices dropped in large part because world-wide recession reduced both travel to Hawaii and off-island demand for real-estate.
If you really want to bring down the cost of housing and limit growth, it must be done by creating strong barriers to entry.
Absent those barriers, condensed high rises is the best alternative to try and manage demand and prevent continued sprawl and paving of the island.
I think this is the crux of the problem, as long as people can keep coming then building more supply will likely not outpace demand and drive down prices. It will just make the island more crowded and overburden the already crumbling infrastructure.
Smart growth and increased density will not bring down prices either, it can remove some extraneous costs like gas and transportation, but people will be willing to pay for that increased quality of life. Thats why Kakaako isn't cheap. There are tons of new units but they are desirable because of their location and newness so they are expensive. Manhattan and San Francisco are dense, they are not cheap because they are desirable places to live just like Honolulu.
I think this is the crux of the problem, as long as people can keep coming then building more supply will likely not outpace demand and drive down prices. It will just make the island more crowded and overburden the already crumbling infrastructure.
Did you read the article? New building supply for rentals has fallen far, far below the growth in demand for many years, creating a larger and larger deficit in the total inventory, and the ones being left behind are those who are born and raised here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UHgrad
Given these parameters a couple making $120k could qualify for $603,271 house according to First Hawaiian Bank which is over $100k below median.
Did you read the article?
Let's talk about a single income family with a $40,000 gross. They should be able to rent a decent 2 bedroom apartment for themselves. But nothing is being built to serve that pressing need.
Quote:
So local people pretty much get to own houses one of 4 ways because very few can actually afford those prices:
Did you read the article? It's about rents in Hawai'i, where 41.6% of the population rents, one of the highest rates in the country. We've had other threads about how people can/can't afford to buy $500,000+ houses, but I want to keep this one focused on what is happening to plain, everyday working people who need decent housing to rent.
Focusing on the expensive housing just keeps people who can afford it flocking here. We need some focus instead on the people who are already here and just need decent housing at affordable rents. Otherwise life in Hawai'i going to become more stratified, and unmanageable.
The state has to work for EVERYONE who is here, including the "working people," not just the wealthy. And the priority should be on filling the needs of people who are already here, not attracting more.
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