Power companies pledge support for 100 pct renewable energy (power lines, lease)

[Arktikos]

https://www.hawaiianelectric.com/the...energy-by-2045

[terracore]

This reminds me of during the Romney / Obama presidential debate when Romney said that if he was elected president, the US would be North American energy independent by the end of his term.

Big promise, I thought, since that was going to happen regardless of who was elected because of domestic fracking and big drilling advances in Canada and Mexico. He didn't win the election but his "promise" came true regardless, and the US is now exporting oil for the first time in decades (though in full disclosure, some of that has to do with changing a 70's law that prohibited oil exports).

Promising 100% renewable energy in 30 years sounds like kinda the same thing. Many of my neighbors in Puna are 100% renewable energy now even with it's high start-up cost and with battery banks that are in serious need of a technology upgrade.

The only reason I haven't switched over is because our grid electric bills are already pretty low because when we bought our house we invested in conservation. I really don't think I will be "on the grid" in 30 years even if there are few technological advances. If there are only a few technology leaps between now and then, which is unlikely (it is more likely there will be many technological leaps) I can't imagine why Helco couldn't offer 100% renewable energy to whatever few customers they have left in 30 years.

[pj737]

Originally Posted by terracore

The only reason I haven't switched over is because our grid electric bills are already pretty low because when we bought our house we invested in conservation. I really don't think I will be "on the grid" in 30 years even if there are few technological advances. If there are only a few technology leaps between now and then, which is unlikely (it is more likely there will be many technological leaps) I can't imagine why Helco couldn't offer 100% renewable energy to whatever few customers they have left in 30 years.

We will be at 100% renewables well before 2045. We don't need any technological leaps... we only need FAIR adoption of TOU to encourage investment in energy storage. If that doesn't happen, the simply passage of time will eventually make TOU unnecessary because batteries will plummet in price in the coming years.

PV works just fine - no technological advancements (in efficiency) are needed. We have more than enough land and roof space to power the entire state with the sun we have - far more. The missing link is cheap energy storage. And that is coming in the next few years thanks to the proliferation of EVs and a massive ramping up of manufacturing capacity for lithium ion batteries. Once energy storage gets down to about $300/kWh you will see many people start using HECO only as a back up power source (similar to how a current "off-grid" customer would use a fossil fuel powered generator to use in case there isn't sun, PV system has issues or their consumption is anomalous)... or they will disconnect altogether and use Hawaii Gas to feed an on site generator in case PV doesn't meet the home's demand. Or a homeowner can use their electric vehicle to power their home.

As people start cutting the cord, those left "stuck" on the grid because they have no access to land and/or roof space (for PV) will end up paying an ever-increasing larger share of the massive O&M cost of HECO's archaic and inefficient electricity distribution network.

[ScottStielow]

It will be interesting to watch Hawaii reach 100% Renewables, by 2045.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by ScottStielow

It will be interesting to watch Hawaii reach 100% Renewables, by 2045.

For those of us still alive

[hotzcatz]

I'm not sure where this perception of the PV folks costing the non-PV folks more money for power is coming from. Maybe just jealousy and non-logical thinking?

The power company now credits PV power put into the grid from the rooftop systesm at WHOLESALE rates and then charges RETAIL rates when the PV people use power at night. So essentially, the rooftop PV systems are like little generators for the electric company that they don't have to maintain or pay to install. The electric company is now making money off the rooftop PV systems, so how is that going to increase the electric bill of the non-PV folks?

If anything, it should lower the electric rates since there's power for the electric company to resell without them having to make it. The standard grid power generators may only have to work at night. During the day, the grid could be entirely solar powered with the electric company making money off other people's equipment.

Maybe we could use the extra daytime solar to pump water uphill and then run hydro generators during the night for power in darkness. It could be a closed system with small hydro-generators perhaps? No messing with the water supply other than enough to initially set up the system.

[pj737]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

I'm not sure where this perception of the PV folks costing the non-PV folks more money for power is coming from. Maybe just jealousy and non-logical thinking?

PV only tackles the cost of generation (what you see when you drive by a power plant). You are missing the cost of distribution, transmission and related G&A costs (Ward facility and office, ancillary sites, substations, above/below ground power lines, transformers, linesmen, vehicles, engineers, general office staff, etc etc). Distribution and transmission costs alone currently represents about half of the HECO bill. PV generation is also not "on demand" therefore has a lower value than electricity that can be provided 24/7 on a minute's notice.

But those that don't have or can't have PV are definitely jealous.

[hotzcatz]

I don't see what the grumpy people had to be jealous about, they were driving a new Mercedes. Although, perhaps it was leased and not really theirs at all. They seemed to think that since we had rooftop solar, their bills were higher although they couldn't quite explain how.

I'm not sure how the power company is going to address the lack of power at night if we all go to alternate energy. Wave generators from the tide? We don't have much tide to work with. Pumping water uphill to run generators is all I can think of.

Unless we could recycle batteries, I'd hate to see a city sized battery bank.

Can electricity be generated by differences in temperature? We could freeze ice with solar power during the day, but how does one get electricity from a temperature difference?

[terracore]

Rethinking all of this, HECO/HELCO is essentially a "cost plus" ponzi scheme. I'm generalizing numbers here, but if their business model is to profit 5% off the cost of energy production and delivery, then higher electricity production costs=higher profits. Now I'm surprised they didn't use 2025 as their target date.

[smarino]

"Power companies pledge support for 100 pct renewable energy"

And the check is in the mail :]