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Old 07-17-2017, 09:19 PM
 
2,095 posts, read 1,538,195 times
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^


agreed on all counts. It only really made sense with NEM and the credits. The payback calculation also doesn't factor in being able to invest the money instead of sinking it into a PV system and the time value of money.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Puna, Hawaii
4,365 posts, read 4,784,712 times
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"The only reason your home in Puna and quality of life even exists today is because of the countless supporting infrastructure that is provided to you 200 miles away. If high-priced Oahu and all the "debt-slaves" didn't exist, you wouldn't be posting here on this forum from Puna."

Agreed. And that's why I passed on living on Oahu.
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Old 07-18-2017, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Hawaii
1,689 posts, read 4,285,489 times
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Even though I have a dryer I usually hang my clothes to dry. The rain softens them naturally and I have always lived in the country. Clothes dry in no time. People started using solor panels over 20 years ago.
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:16 AM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
11,048 posts, read 23,865,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj737 View Post
The only reason your home in Puna and quality of life even exists today is because of the countless supporting infrastructure that is provided to you 200 miles away. If high-priced Oahu and all the "debt-slaves" didn't exist, you wouldn't be posting here on this forum from Puna.
I've reread that statement a couple of times and still don't quite get it.

What does Oahu 'debt-slaves' have to do with quality of life on Hawaii Island? Supporting infrastructure from Oahu would be what? HELCO is a subsiderary of HECO and they both fall under the state's PUC laws, but what does one have to do with the other? The electrical systems on each island were set up back in the days of inter-island sailing ships. They're pretty much entirely separate systems.
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:22 AM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
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Even without NEM and all, there's still quite a few folks on Hawaii Island as well as the other 'outer' islands who will be setting up large PV systems. The electric grid doesn't reach all the different parts of the island and in some areas, there's a hefty fee before connecting to HECO. So, there will still be big PV systems being installed, even without tax credits. Not as many, though.

As for all the solar system installers going out of business, this is nothing new. The same thing happened back around '83. Then there was a blip in the early 2000's and then around 2012 or so. Construction is almost always a boom or bust sort of thing. What with the new upcoming septic system laws, probably a lot of the solar system workers will switch to installing septic systems. Different sort of construction work, but still construction.
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Old 07-20-2017, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Juneau, AK + Puna, HI
10,407 posts, read 7,502,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj737 View Post
Without NEM and tax credits, the solar industry will collapse entirely leaving tens of thousands of people with broken PV systems (they all fail eventually)..
??

No, they don't fail often. Panels themselves may last your lifetime. I have some that are 25 years old and going strong. Charge controller and wiring haven't failed either. Batteries do, but can be replaced and recycled.

And, any failed electrical components can be replaced by either homeowner or an electrician, just as they can in a conventional grid exclusive home.
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Old 07-20-2017, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Kahala
12,120 posts, read 17,732,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Cleric View Post

No, they don't fail often. Panels themselves may last your lifetime. I have some that are 25 years old and going strong.
You are somewhat lucky your panels from 25 years ago don't have no problems.

But, panels sold today typically have a 25-30 year warranty so should last longer than that.
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Old 07-20-2017, 07:09 PM
 
1,580 posts, read 2,083,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Cleric View Post
??

No, they don't fail often. Panels themselves may last your lifetime. I have some that are 25 years old and going strong. Charge controller and wiring haven't failed either. Batteries do, but can be replaced and recycled.

And, any failed electrical components can be replaced by either homeowner or an electrician, just as they can in a conventional grid exclusive home.
Of the 15 PV systems I own (over the last 12 years), I have had issues on almost every system. All 6 of the Sharp "Sunvista" inverters I installed in 2006 have failed within 8 years. I have had a few SolarEdge inverters fail as well as countless power optimizers. I've probably replaced 10+ Enphase inverters too and I'm sure many more will fail over time. Two SMA inverters also failed. Communication issues (awesomely unreliable powerline comm) are almost constant. Luckily, the PV company I used is locally owned and still in business; they provided all the replacement work at absolutely no cost to me. But you are right regarding the solar panels... of the hundreds I installed, zero have had issues. Which is quite amazing considering how horrific the reliability of my inverters and other supporting equipment has been.

As for being a homeowner and swapping out inverters, etc,... good luck. You need someone to RMA a unit and no manufacturer will talk to a homeowner - they need a licensed electrician to do the work, often times needing to be certified to work on their equipment. They're not going to just ship you a new inverter. And if you can't do a straight swap it's much more of a world of hurt because you'll need to get HECO to approve whatever you're putting in its place. TROV compliance, etc etc. This would be a nightmare for your know-nothing-about-PV homeowner. If the company I used wasn't in business I'd need to consume a heck lot more alcohol than I already do to deal with the headaches.
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Old 07-20-2017, 09:01 PM
 
760 posts, read 760,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terracore View Post
We have solar hot water. Our electricity bill is about $100/month (has been for over 5 years). If I converted to PV, I wouldn't live long enough to recoup the savings. We spent a few thousand dollars in conservation to save tens of thousands of dollars later.
A friend spent $30,000 putting solar on his roof in California, I'd find it hard to believe he would ever break even on that in even 50 years, well before then he will be replacing expensive batteries.

It wouldn't save me much, all my lights are LED's anyway, one small window A/C cools the entire house because I have R100 insulation in the attic and double glass windows.

My total energy bill to date from Jan 1 to June 14 according to my bill for gas and electric was $1,141, that would include the month of December in that Jan 1st bill.
A fair amount was used from Nov through May runnning 3 sump pumps very frequently.

In June I used 43 therms of gas for cooking and hot water ($41) but $10 of that is for the meter charge whether any is used or not.
The electric was 385 KW which came to $41.69, that includes their $8.50 meter charge.
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Old 07-20-2017, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
11,048 posts, read 23,865,015 times
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On our island, your 385 KW of electricity would cost about $150 plus the other assorted fees for being connected. And we have no natural gas so it'd be propane from tanks instead. Guess those are just a couple of the reasons why solar works here better than other places.
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