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Old 08-08-2017, 01:37 PM
 
2,169 posts, read 979,508 times
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I wonder why are they doing this? They could either make the current compostable bags better for composting or improve their waste management. Or they could even just require stores to go all paper if they think the current ordinance is not good enough. I am guessing Safeway lobbied it just like they do in California so they can pocket bag fees and not worry about competition. I know they had been complaining that in Hawaii or anywhere a plastic bag ban had been passed without a mandatory fee on alternatives that their overhead costs increased as paper costs 6 cents higher than plastic bags but they don't dare charge on their own accord in fear of competition from other grocers. Its essentially a government mandated price fixing scheme being pushed in cities around the country and the state of California just recently.

This would just make things more expensive for all those residents, snowbirds, and tourists that come to Honolulu but does nothing good for reducing litter. In California street litter including other plastics had gotten much worse since localities and most recently statewide started this banning and charging for checkout bag policy. Google street view which takes up to eight images along side a road a year proves it. This will happen to Honolulu when the ordinance goes into effect in 2018. Guaranteed.
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
10,678 posts, read 20,426,742 times
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The other islands have had the plastic bag ban for several years now. Not much has changed as far as roadside rubbish.
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,624 posts, read 6,527,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citizensadvocate View Post
In California street litter including other plastics had gotten much worse since localities and most recently statewide started this banning and charging for checkout bag policy.
Not in my part of California. As more folks in Hawaiʻi, California, and elsewhere learn to bring along their own reusable bags when shopping, a ban on single-use plastic bags is pretty much a non-issue.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:30 PM
 
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Honolulu and other islands already have a ban on thin plastic grocery bags for about three or four years already. But compostable bags and thicker bags are currently exempt and no fee is charged unless at the descretion of the store. So are bags within the aisles of the store.
I read the expanded ban is to force a charge for exempt bags of other types and eventually phrase out the compostable ones as well. So it's not a new ban but a power trip to get stores to charge a fixed fee for each bag offered. Mandatory anti trust price fixing.

In urban areas of California where there are lots of garbage trucks street litter sharply increased in local regions that passed the the bans since 2012. Google street view and department of works waste audits shows increased alternative plastic litter. People are dumping all the other plastics that comes with their groceries into the trash unwrapped which leads to them being blown away during collection.

Many people in Honolulu are tourists or part time residents. They would still need plastic bags for swimsuits, dirty clothing, and flip flops. If they don't get them with purchase they would just buy them or get them out of the aisles as roll handless bags are not banned. Bought bags are just going to end up in the hotel garbage as they leave the island so does most paper or reusable bags they may have bought.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Kailua
10,550 posts, read 13,777,291 times
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San Jose, CA did a study. The plastic bag ban reduced plastic litter in storm drains by 89%, creeks and rivers by 60%, and street and neighborhoods by 59%. That seems contrary to all the "extra" littering the op suggests. San Jose has roughly the same population as Oahu.

Quite frankly the Honolulu ordinance falls short. Instead of 15 cents per bag, it should be at least $1.50 per bag to encourage people to bring their own multi-use bag.

As far as tourists go with swimsuits - whatever, they'll do the same thing I do, use the hotel laundry bag which is exempt from the ban.

http://www3.sanjoseca.gov/clerk/Comm...0121203_d5.pdf
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Old 08-09-2017, 04:37 PM
 
1,454 posts, read 1,663,581 times
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I get great pleasure in witnessing all the crybabies coming out blabbering against the ban - "I'll give you my free plastic bags when you pry them from my cold, dead hands". Absolutely frigging hilarious.

If you think single-use plastic bags aren't littering our 'aina, try participating/volunteering in a beach or roadside clean up (I have). Too busy or unwilling to participate? Shocker.

https://estrip.org/content/users/tin...eChoke0728.jpg


If people are so hung up on needing cheap, disposable plastic bags, they can go to Amazon and buy them in bulk for less than 2 cents each and bring them along when shopping. For the price of a plate lunch, they'll have bags to last them for years. It's unreal what people bicker about these days...
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:47 PM
 
Location: La Costa, California
916 posts, read 593,698 times
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They think everything is a government plot against them. Besides the plastic bags, these guys are obsessed with sparklers, "safe" fireworks, drinking on the beach etc etc.

I'm sure also against the helmet laws and seat belts in autos as I remember there were plenty of libertarian types opposed at the time. They derisively call it the nanny state and ignore the thousands of lives saved, the clean air and water, and reduced litter.

As you can see - they have alternate facts.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:06 PM
 
2,169 posts, read 979,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whtviper1 View Post
San Jose, CA did a study. The plastic bag ban reduced plastic litter in storm drains by 89%, creeks and rivers by 60%, and street and neighborhoods by 59%. That seems contrary to all the "extra" littering the op suggests. San Jose has roughly the same population as Oahu.

Quite frankly the Honolulu ordinance falls short. Instead of 15 cents per bag, it should be at least $1.50 per bag to encourage people to bring their own multi-use bag.

As far as tourists go with swimsuits - whatever, they'll do the same thing I do, use the hotel laundry bag which is exempt from the ban.

http://www3.sanjoseca.gov/clerk/Comm...0121203_d5.pdf
They could just phrased out the thick bags without the 15c charge. The charge is only so Safeway can profit rather pay the extra overhead cost. Safeway and its big grocer poppets actually paid off the politicians in California to get the mandatory fee passed in cities and eventually statewide.

That San Jose study is completely bloated and misleading. Thats what you get with a far progressive leaning council makeup and city government. They didn't even calculate the same areas. Their status shows a great drop in number of plastic bags 12% - 8% and other litter in between 2010-2011 when there was no ban. You know something is very wrong with the data if plastic bag litter dropped more in the year before the ban than the year after they stopped one million residents from getting one in the store.

Trust me I lived in San Jose for 14 years in the past including three after 2012 ban started. If you go to San Jose you will be grossed out. But if you look at Google Street View San Jose and the Bay Area is actually much worse than prior to 2012-2013 when so many governments get brainwashed into jumping aboard the banwagon.

A more comprehensive study done in San Francisco shows a sharp increase in alternative non grocery/retail bag from about 4%-8% while grocery/retail bag litter stayed between 0.6%-0.4%. Increasing 4% non grocery bag litter just to reduce 0.2% I guess thats what they call success.

A former government worker as complied this public data for everyone to review about how San Jose bloated its data. Yet it had been commonly used as gospel for environmentalists to push their agenda farther.
https://fighttheplasticbagban.files....t_rebuttal.pdf

In addition San Jose retailers had to install barrier railing in stores and beef up security for the first time in order to combat shrinkage due to unbagged or reusable bagged groceries leaving accidentally or intentionally unchecked.

As for reuse plastic bags Hotels only provide one laundry bag. That is only if they stay in a hotel that has valet laundry in the first place. Its likely to be taken up by dirty laundry. If one has a family of 4 or more they would need much more for trash, swimsuits, flip flops, and many other purpose.
https://fighttheplasticbagban.files....t_rebuttal.pdf
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:55 PM
 
Location: not sure, but there's a hell of a lot of water around here!
2,678 posts, read 6,833,808 times
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San Jose is in California.....


Period.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:38 AM
 
2,169 posts, read 979,508 times
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The other poster brought the San Jose, california study as gospel to why Honolulu and other cities in the country need to follow their example not only banning plastic bags but force a charge on all non plastic ones that are exempt. In reality which the phony "environmentalists" and their political and media poppets refuse to accept that this is a very flawed study and is much worse for the environment and leads to dire consequences.

Currently in Hawaii compostable bags and other exempt bags are allowed which are comped with purchase without a fee, still are reused to contain garbage including all those other plastics that come with groceries just as with normal plastic bags in the past. But If you take those away these as well and or force a fee on them, those many other plastic materials that comes with our groceries including produce bags would be uncontained in the garbage and will blow all over the place during collection. That's what happened in California after they took away all free bags of any material not just ban plastic bags and more people carried their groceries without a bag and dumped the plastic wrapper unbagged afterwards. Bin liners arnt a viable alternative either. They often come loose and blow away along with their contents. I often witness this when garbage trucks drive along the freeways in California after it went into effect but hardly happens before.
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