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I simply don't believe that the discrimination against whites in Hawai'i is based on race. I believe that it's a reaction to the racism that many whites have shown and continue to show to non-whites.
Treating someone differently because of their race is entirely different from developing a bitterness towards your oppressors.
In that case, how is it that my son, a young man whose own hands are calloused from the hard work he does daily, is an oppressor of any Hawaiian? What, other than his race, makes him a perceived oppressor?
I am old enough to have experienced blatant sexism in the workplace decades ago. I do not see males as my oppressors. I certainly do not hold every male responsible for the behavior I witnessed or experienced from specific men or even groups of men decades ago, which wasn't nearly as bad as the sexism my mother and grandmother experienced.
You can wrap the ugliness of racism in less offensive words like "bitterness" but it's still racism and it's still ugly.
I'll give you that, although all Europeans aren't white.
My point exactly. Europeans as well as Africans, Russians, Middle Easterners, South Americans etc etc etc arent white, they are all colors. By saying its "White Diseases is Racist" as you are putting people in a colorful light.
The Hawaiian islands have been exploited by many "races," but white haoles are the latest to "move in." White American businessmen took Hawaii by force and there has never been any recompense. Hotels go up but they are not Kanaka-owned. The native Hawaiian people have been greatly exploited and it's naive for anyone to move to the islands without knowing the history of the place... and the people.
The Hawaiian islands have been exploited by many "races," but white haoles are the latest to "move in." White American businessmen took Hawaii by force and there has never been any recompense. Hotels go up but they are not Kanaka-owned. The native Hawaiian people have been greatly exploited and it's naive for anyone to move to the islands without knowing the history of the place... and the people.
The Hawaiian islands are no different than the mainland to the Indians, no different to Africa by many nations , to Australians aborigines, to South Americans by the Spaniards, and the list goes on and on and on. Look at the Middle East back many many centuries. The Hawaiians have no reason to feel their special. Countries take over other countries, land etc as its natural and called progression.
Hawaiians are few and far between and most Hawaiian (proper blood line) live off the islands. And most Hawaiians married into white families, especially the royals.
Hawaii also asked the US to become part of the US in the mid 1800's. Look it up and see how smart the white people were of the US, by saying no they effectively stopped slavery in the islands here. Imagine how that would have been.
Again, no sympathy, as its a natural progression of people to overcome other peoples lands etc to progress their people. If the Hawaiians hadnt ran from their original lands, or maybe made it to the mainland, what could have happened. Did they not come here and fight each other until one tribe was ruler of the islands? Was that fair to the other people living on the other islands? NOPE! Its a smaller scale of world dominance by many. Move on, and stop bitching.
The Hawaiian islands have been exploited by many "races," but white haoles are the latest to "move in." White American businessmen took Hawaii by force and there has never been any recompense. Hotels go up but they are not Kanaka-owned. The native Hawaiian people have been greatly exploited and it's naive for anyone to move to the islands without knowing the history of the place... and the people.
It is naive to think that greed is exclusive to Caucasians. It is naive to believe that only Hawaii and its people have been victimized by greed. It is naive to believe that all "white Haoles" are greedy or wealthy.
Like everyone else in this country, I also have tales of how my beautiful state has been destroyed by corruption and greed. The steel mills in every small West Virginia town along the Ohio River are gone. Now we have casinos lining the streets where stores once stood. It's like a dirtier, run down Las Vegas.
What makes you think that our skin color or nationality makes us immune to the same exploitation that the Hawaiian people have suffered? Most of us just want the chance to earn a livable wage and raise our families. We're really all the same, in that way. Skin color doesn't make a person greedy or evil and it is naive to believe it does.
No matter how you try to explain it racism is wrong.
Steve40th, I understand what you are trying to say, but your facts are wrong. Hawaii understood that they would need a protective alliance with the United States or England (thus the Hawaiian flag had elements of both the Union Jack and the Stars and Stripes). Fearing that American businessmen in Hawaii were plotting with the US government to take the islands by force (they had effectively started this with the Bayonnet Constitution of 1887 which stripped the poor, Native Hawaiians, and Asians of voting rights and representation within the government), Queen Liliuokalani asked the president if this was in case the US’s interest. She was told that the US had no interest in annexation of the Hawaiian islands. One week later US marines marched on the royal palace and effectively deposing Queen Liliuokalani – taking the islands by force.
President Grover Cleveland found (in the Blount Report) the overthrow of the Hawaiian Monarchy to have been illegal and proposed that the Queen and her government should be re-instated, but because the Queen Liliuokalani was embittered by the US’s actions and wanted the US to pay for its illegality, the United States Congress refused to re-instate both her rule and Hawaiian sovereignty. Actually, President Cleveland was willing to give up Hawaii but wealthy businessmen who brought about the Bayonnet Constitution primed Congress. They were not about to lose their cash cow.
That is fact.
Steve40th, have you ever met an Aboriginee? I have. They are a peaceful people, but they are deeply angry with Whites. Why? Because Whites took their land, tried to exterminate their race, and stole their children. In fact, the Australian government just recently formally apologized to the Aboriginee people for stealing what was theirs. There is also talk about real estate and monetary recompense for the theft.
Do you know any Native Americans? Yes, I do. They are not as friendly and loyal to White people as Tonto was to the Lone Ranger. There is deep anger and sadness in many toward the people who stole their lands, who imposed their culture, and who show little respect for native ways. Native Americans are not loving the reservation system. Go to a reservation alone and you will almost certainly have problems.
Yes, progress happens. And yes, progress is good. But arrogance under the name “progress” is still arrogance. And arrogance breeds anger and resentment. Were the Hawaiians treated as equals? No. Were the Native Americans treated as equals? No. Were the Aborinees treated as equals? No. All were treated with the arrogance of the butt of a rifle. How can that not breed contempt?
If someone came into your home tonight, took your family away, shackled you, and destroyed your home, wouldn’t you be angry? Yes, you would.
Now, why so much talk of Whites? Because if you know you history, the last and largest land-grabs -- colonizations -- were effectively brought about by predominantly white nations. China stopped in Asia. Japan stopped in Asia. Only white western countries flourished in the last global colonizations. It's not that white western culture is evil. It's that white western culture has been motivated by commerce, power, and a certain level of arrogance (remember that God wanted the settlers to go west and tame the land? Predsetination. Arrogance at its best) . why is it that Columbus "discovered" America? Cook discovered the Sandwich Islands? It's arrogance. People already lived in all of these places... but whites were better, right? Discoverers. Conquerors. Masters. Arrogance.
scorpy01, I am certainly not condoning racism. I never said that I condoned it. Is giving the reasons that anger and distrust exist condoning it? Is defining the problem a problem too? But isn’t this what Barack Obama was doing with his recent speech on racism – showing the reasons that Black America feels angry and disenfranchised while White America feels threatened by that very anger? In fact it is the exact same thing. If the majority chooses not to understand the minority, there will always be problems. If the majority understood the minority and treated it with respect, there would be little need for threads like this one.
If you live in the islands and treat the locals with respect, you can expect few problems. Some may occur. There are always a few bad apples. But for the most part respect garners respect in the islands.
Still, would you expect a White person with an attitude to get by in South Central ? Then don’t expect it in many parts of paradise. Expect the reality. Know the people and the place. Respect one another.
Mahalo.
Last edited by kai.pacifica; 04-25-2008 at 04:24 AM..
Steve40th,
Although you're correct that land has been taken from existing residents throughtout history, there is a difference in the case of Hawai'i.
At the time of the overthrow, Hawai'i was an internationally-recognized nation with a constitutional leader. It is that international recognition that convinced then President Cleveland to determine the overthrow to be illegal.
This, alone, sets native Hawaiians apart from Native Americans (north and south), aboringinal Aussies, and Palestinians. Yes, Hawai'i is different.
I will give a nod to your point about the unity of the islands. LOTS of Hawaiian blood was shed for that ambition and I've never understood the reverance for that act. Yet, overthrowing a kingdom isn't that same as overthrowing a nation.
There is racism in Hawaii. And yes, against Caucasians.
Is there racism on the East Coast, Texas, Idaho? Not if you are white.
Racism hurts and feels personal even if it isn't. I am a Hawaii born Asian American, lived and traveled in mainland states. Do we locals feel prejudice against whites, some do, some don't. Do we express it to you? No, most don't want to offend you.
Let's reverse the situation. Has any of you on the mainland, heard anyone in your family, friends, co-workers express derogatory comments about Hispanics, Asians, blacks? And is that OK with you.
Racism exists, yes in your community too. I have experienced the cold shoulder, blatant negative comments, and subtle ones too. But, it was rare, most people of all races want to live in peace with each other. I was as in danger of attack from whites on the mainland as you are in Hawaii from locals.
There are thousands of haoles who have lived here for generations. Those that stay, come respecting the local culture and values and want to be part of the mix. Those who don't feel comfortable with Asian Pac-Islander culture and desire a Euro-centered culture will have a hard time adjusting. It is what you make of it. And that is true anywhere to go.
Why can't mainland whites fit into the local culture?
Now that I have your attention...
Those of us locals (hawaiian, haole, asian, etc.) have our prejudices but in the end we think of ourselves as family (ohana). We are like family, we fight (and have for generations) but will come to each others aid. We are all connected and know each other - through generations of marriage, friendships, living closely. We are home town people - our love for our land and our lifestyle runs very deep. We are not like you - there is no where else we could live - Hawaii is where our souls are at home. You are here for yourself, we are here for our past ancestors and our future great, great, great grandchildren.
To understand how we get along, you need to hear inside humor like comedians Frank DeLima and Augie T. Please try to understand us. Your lack of knowledge of true Hawaii is ruining the cultural uniqueness that took generations to build.
The Official Frank De Lima Website (broken link)
There is racism in Hawaii. And yes, against Caucasians.
Is there racism on the East Coast, Texas, Idaho? Not if you are white.
Racism hurts and feels personal even if it isn't. I am a Hawaii born Asian American, lived and traveled in mainland states. Do we locals feel prejudice against whites, some do, some don't. Do we express it to you? No, most don't want to offend you.
Let's reverse the situation. Has any of you on the mainland, heard anyone in your family, friends, co-workers express derogatory comments about Hispanics, Asians, blacks? And is that OK with you.
Racism exists, yes in your community too. I have experienced the cold shoulder, blatant negative comments, and subtle ones too. But, it was rare, most people of all races want to live in peace with each other. I was as in danger of attack from whites on the mainland as you are in Hawaii from locals.
There are thousands of haoles who have lived here for generations. Those that stay, come respecting the local culture and values and want to be part of the mix. Those who don't feel comfortable with Asian Pac-Islander culture and desire a Euro-centered culture will have a hard time adjusting. It is what you make of it. And that is true anywhere to go.
To answer your question, yes, I have been exposed to racists here in my state. And No, it is not okay with me. If I am out and about and hear a racist remark, I state clearly that the remark is racist and that I'm offended by it. Then I leave. If the remark happens in my home, I also ask for an apology and state that racist remarks are not tolerated in my home. Only once have I had to ask the person to leave. Yes, racism exists but it is unacceptable. I was lamenting the fact that it seems to be acceptable in Hawaii and sadly, some of the comments here have borne that out.
This issue has nothing to do with respect of the Hawaiian people, the culture or the land. It has everything to do with treating all people with respect from the get-go. When I meet an Asian or a black, I don't expect them to "win" my respect with certain behavior before I give them respect. Respecting each other is the default position.
If you go back through this thread and change the word "haole" to the N word, everyone other than the Aryan Nation would call it what it is: racist.
Racism is hatred. Why hate me until I prove to you that I'm not bad? Do you truly not see how detrimental that is to all of us? And do you not realize that hate hurts the hater much more than the hated. How will we ever come together if the first thing we see in the other person is difference?
This conversation makes me so sad for all of us.
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