Soul Searching - Moving to Hawaii? (long read) (Honolulu, Kaneohe: environment, relocation)

[mirkim]

BACKGROUND:
I grew up on a small town on the coast of Italy; on the outskirts of Naples. I grew up in and on the Sea; I spent all the great part of my life in the water; everyone would swear I was a mermaid. It used to be my element… my soul and heart. Till my family moved -- legally -- to the US. The economy in Italy was/is not that great and, as a Merchant Mariner, my dad’s life on the Sea became harder so… after a lot of paperwork we left the Sea for land.

I believe that if you move to a country, it is your immediate duty to learn the language, learn the country’s culture and history and appreciate every part of it. I studied hard, worked even harder, left college without owning a cent to the school system with a Management degree and a Computer Science degree. Became a citizen, met my husband (a nice green eyed American boy who won my parent’s heart by learning Italian so he could communicate better with them ) … we have been together for 13 years.

We lived in upstate NY (both working for Lockheed Martin as software engineers) and we currently live in MA. I am 39 years old and close to an emotional breakdown. I can’t find peace.

We have been to Hawaii twice. Once on the Big Island, and the other time on Kauai (I wanted to experience Puka dogs YUMM!). And after so many years away from the Mediterranean Sea, I felt beautiful again, (I need to lose 10 LBS), happy, at peace again when I breathed in the scent of Hawaii and the Sea. Call it being reborn.

But it was only a vacation, only a few weeks... and returning to Massachusetts it is like I am back into a black hole with frustrations and ugliness. Every where we look, it seems society has degraded.

My husband, who loves me beyond belief and wants my soul at peace, suggested we could try to move to Hawaii. But where? I don’t even know where to start… and there seems to be so much negativism on many forum’s topics. I feel so confused. I need to talk to someone who lives there… and thinks the way I do.

SO WHERE?
We have no kids, we do not plan on having any. We have two indoor cats, (two is plenty). Both neutered/spayed (one has 3 legs-- the previous owner threw him a way after he got hit by a car hoping he would die -- the poor limping soul came to our door for help… how can you say no to such majestic creatures!!) The cats walk on a leash, we take them into the small backyard, never leave them alone there. We interact with them non stop. Incredibly smart both of them. They are well behaved. And here I am dreaming: I would love to have about 1 Acre of land, where maybe on a 4th of it, we can build a “cage” for our “kids” to enjoy the outdoors, hide in bushes, run around freely and climb the trees, with no damage to the local fauna. We want them safe.

My husband and the cats are my family. The rest of mine is back in Italy. His sister is in California. I love my birth family to pieces, but I do not miss them. We have only three close friends, but we do things with them once or twice a month… sometimes months pass by without getting together. My husband makes friends easily… I am a loner. He loves kung fu, crew rowing, running and hiking. I love walking, swimming, reading, writing, painting, crafts, playing on line games... (yes I need an internet connection) But how can you enjoy a walk or a climb, when people are yapping on cell phones? Or sit comfortably in a park reading a book, with a car blasting rap music close by??

We do not drink, we do not smoke, we do not do drugs, we do not party. We do not care about night life. We do not dance. We like a quiet environment. Have I said enough that we love peace and quiet, and just listening to the sounds of nature? If we want to listen to music, we put the headphone on, so we do not bother anyone else. Our car radio is turned off when we drive around inhabited areas. And I can not understand how people can be so ill-mannered by having radio blasting in their cars or home at 11:00PM a night, or even 4:00AM in the morning! It is uncivilized! It is rude!

We want to be able to go see a movie or two once a month. Go shopping for food and necessity. We aren’t avid shoppers. We do not need to have a mall nearby. A Cosco and Wall-Mart will suffice. We do not need fancy clothes, or shoes. Flip Flops are just fine! A martial art place where my husband can further his studies, and not one of those fake-get-a-belt every-day school. Something with purpose and honor to the art.

We want a clean quiet neighborhood. With considerate and polite people. An area where we can have a vegetable garden. Hopefully overlook the Sea, and be at walking distance: 15 minutes would be fine. So I can run there any time I need happiness. I want a simple and nice 2 bedrooms home, one bath, with a living room, dining room, kitchen and a laundry room. A comfortable porch where we can have a BBQ and roast some vegetables and fish, and NOT listen to people screaming at each other in the streets. Am I dreaming much?

A place where it is not too dry and not to wet. I react badly to mosquitoes bites unfortunately, so somewhere in the balance. I want some green after all, but not want to feel like I live in the Amazon jungle. The mosquitoes I know I can’t avoid… the ones here in MA kill me anyway. My husband can fly Cessnas, but it is nice if we can find a place to work close to home, where his skills as software engineer can be used. He is good, very good. I am stressed out, living in a state of depression I can’t shake, I do not feel I am good at anything anymore.

SUGGESTIONS? (other than moving to the moon)
He thought, maybe somewhere in Oahu? Or? Where? Maybe not Hawaii? Some state by the sea?

Any helpful suggestion, are really appreciated. If you live in Hawaii, just moved, been living there a long time, please respond to this post or e-mail me. With anything you can offer as suggestions. Links to e-mails or web sites we can visit to find someone to talk to? Be nice please.


Thank you kindly.

[cynmkolohe]

mirkim,

What a thoughtful post! I do understand your need to be near the ocean. I left Hawaii briefly after living here for a year, and somehow my soul was not at peace again until I returned....I don't think I could ever live in a place where I did not have easy access to a very large body water. Some people are "wired" that way, I guess.

It sounds like your husband first needs to research the job market here and see if he would be better served focusing on Oahu or if there might be enough work/salary for him on one of the neighbor islands. After that, Visit, Visit, Visit!! Not all neighborhoods here are quite and peaceful all the time--there are teens who like to drag race in the middle of the night here too--but I think you would certainly be able to find a place that would meet your needs.

As you narrow things down, research the animal quarantine process and get a good head start on the requirements.

Best wishes to you as you consider moving. There are several people on this forum who will be good resources for you as you look into your options.

With aloha,

Cynthia

[HankDfrmSD]

Originally Posted by mirkim

BACKGROUND:
I grew up on a small town on the coast of Italy; on the outskirts of Naples.

Sorrento? Amalfi?

I was born and brought up in NY. Went to school in NH. Never was west of Philadelphia until I joined the Navy – then soon found myself in Hawaii, fifty years ago. I would be a mess if I had to go back.

In the 60’s I bought a house in Kailua, Oahu, and kept it through three Navy moves, a second career, and a divorce. Now I live here half time with my wife, and the other half in San Diego. I too, can not be far from the ocean.

I think you would be happy on Oahu. I am. Oahu would have a better chance of providing your husband and you jobs where you would not struggle to make ends meet.

Some specifics related to the things you have said are important to you: My house sits on a third of an acre, which is a very large lot for Oahu. The house is four bedrooms, three baths (we expanded it), with a pool. It is worth a little over a million. I just looked on Craigslist for properties with acreage, and I found one house on nine acres for $1,700,000 in Kaneohe, a nice town next to Kailua. Another piece of bare land – 2.21 acres in a good area about a mile from here is $1,200,000. No house.

Unless you have saved up a large nest egg, you probably have to scale back your acreage wants.

About my neighborhood: I can drive to the beach in two minutes, or walk in about ten. It is often voted “Best Beach in the World”. I can walk to a park that is a block and a half away. You’d have to bring your own folding chair if you wanted to read a book there, but it would be quiet except for the children that play there. There is another park that is three blocks away, and larger, with ball fields, etc.

My back yard is peaceful most of the time. On the weekends you will hear neighbors using lawn-mowers or other power devices that are loud, but those are “seldom” noises.

Every now and then, someone drives by with their car stereo too loud, but it does not happen often.

Every couple of months, one of my neighbors has a large family party, and the music goes until about 11PM. The rest of the 59 days, all you hear in my back yard after dark are the birds settling down for the night.

There are very few mosquitoes in the neighborhood, but I just keep a spray can of “Off” at the back door and apply it when I go out.

We like movies, and go fairly often. There is one theater within a half mile, but it is closing soon. I think Netflix is going to be the death of movie theaters everywhere. There is a 10-plex at the mall in Kaneohe, about twenty minutes away. We just saw “Nim’s Island” there this evening – about a young girl and her adventures on a South Pacific island that looked a lot like Hawaii.

You could find a more peaceful place. The north shore of Kauai comes to mind. My son lives there with his wife and his cats. He too decided to have no children. They are in their fifties. I could put you in touch with him. It is much quieter than Oahu, but the job prospects are few and far between. I know of no High-tech opportunities there, but you can certainly look:

hawaii software/QA/DBA/etc jobs classifieds - craigslist

You didn’t say what other cultural things you could or could not do without. I would not be happy living in Kauai, though I love to visit. I think the Honolulu Symphony is excellent, and it is one of the reasons I love Oahu. I am in a small town of 30,000, but I was at the Symphony night before last, in 30 minutes. Also, if you are on the North Shore of Kauai and want to see a movie, you have a choice of one film five miles away, or more thirty miles away.

I think you and your husband would find lots of outdoor activities here where you would meet nice people and feel welcomed. There are canoe paddling clubs (Hawaiian Outrigger Canoes), hiking clubs, swimming clubs, dive clubs, and more.

If you come, I think your biggest challenge will be finding jobs that support you. You should read all the threads here that have the word - move - in them. Use the “search” feature. You will find people who have had bad experiences here. Take it all in, and when you have read it all, and visited enough to have a “feel” for the place, follow your instincts.

I hope it works for you.

Hank

[mirkim]

Thank you so much Hank and Cynthia for your replies.
Reading the posts made me feel so much better.

Oahu seems probably the best choice for us. We are not looking for complete isolation and probably it wouldn't be so much a drastic change from what we are used to. All will have to revolve around the job market without a doubt. And something that my husband would find pleasure in doing. He has a great mind! And that is something that can not go to waste ! I wouldn't mind anything at this point for myself. I just hope it will not be too much of a pay cut for him.

My desire for an Acre is due to the need to find isolation. Bad neighbors can drastically change one's outlook about the human race. As long as I can find a way to put some space between my house and the other is fine. And of course.. it is done more fore the cats.. so they can run around somewhat freely - and i want to grow vegetables.

So... for a few years, (as the housing market in MA is in a slump, and we have to find a way to unload our property first.. FAST!), I think I can handle just some grass and a lot of Sea... just for a few.. maybe we get lucky and find a nice location. It surely seem there are around Oahu. We were going through a lot of properties around Realtor.com... there seems to be low houses costs in some locations... making me wonder what is wrong with them...

About other things to do... I grew up around the Theater, I used to love the trips to the San Carlo Opera House in Naples. I can still remember vividly watching Maurice Ravel's L'enfant et les sortilèges. I have become disillusioned about Opera Houses in the US, as my last experience was sitting through Puccini's Manon Lescaut and people around me text messaging each other on the cellphones instead of watching.

I am scanning the forums non-stop . Reading everything possible. The sure knowledge, and need to accept it.. is that... it doesn't matter where you move... there are always a lot of fears to be dealt with. I am trying to calm mine. I just want to move once though.. fine peace...and stay.

Our cats are chipped, they have collars and they do routinely visit to our vet. They have all their paper in order. I keep a detailed record of everything about their health and checks since day one. All shots are done and always up to date. One is a pedigree, the three legged one is a stray. I brush their teeth too . So hopefully it will not be hard to bring them in. And considering they are in-door cats and I will NEVER leave them out alone unsupervised .. not till we make a cat habitat for them... I hope it will be seen more favorable with the local protection agencies.

The next concern, would probably be the cost of produce/food supplies and utilities. As a tourist, most of the time is spent in one restaurant or the other... you do not really pay much attention to that.

Baby steps I guess.

Job Search
Home Search
...
...
other steps in between....
...
...
Happiness

Thank you all.

[TERRIE]

mirkim....It sounds like a good idea if you can visit for at least a month before you take that huge leap. It's very different to live in a area vs vacationing there. Hawaii will be very expensive to live, so like hank says, RESEARCH! good luck !

[Waianaegirl]

I feel your pain! Unfortunately, just about anywhere you go, there are going to be rude people. I grew up on Oahu (white family) and we moved to Denver when I was twelve. I NEVER got used to being so far from the water. I always missed it and wanted to go back to it. Not neccessarily back to Oahu, but some place warm and by the water. Years later I moved to Seattle. My husband had a job there and things were good. I do live next to the water, but obviously it isn't the same as the water around Hawaii. I feel that we should move, but not sure I would choose Hawaii again. Not good schools. Expensive, and if we get a house with some "peace" in the neighborhood, then you are spending alot more money for that kind of a house. We have kids, and I am not sure that it's the best place to raise them. I should know, I was a kid growing up there. You have none, so that isn't a factor for you guys. It is definately a laid back and warm (weather wise) enviornment. We go back every year, and love to visit, and "talk" about moving there. But in reality it doesn't make sense for us to move there. I too am trying to find a place of "peace" to move to. I have moved around A LOT looking for that "perfect" place. But I believe that true peace can only be found in God, and not in a place. Socity is going down hill no matter where you live. You might feel that a little more stronger in Hawaii since it is a small area, and there is no place to really get away to, unless you get on a plane. Where ever we end up, I know that I am done with snow and cold weather. But ultimatley, we are leaving it in God's hands. He'll put us where he wants us to be! Just do a ton of research, where ever you choose to live.

[TERRIE]

oh and Hank...good for you, buying a house in Kailua in the 60's...I can only dream of what I would still be doing in HI if I had a house purchased many years ago and 1 1/2 acres near Lanikai! Thats wonderful and it sounds like you've worked very hard and earned every bit of it!! What are your thoughts on San Diego? Since we came back to CA just 8 months ago from HI we're trying to find a nice spot in So CA near some WATER! Any advice appreciated...sorry to get off track a bit.

[HankDfrmSD]

Originally Posted by TERRIE

oh and Hank...good for you, buying a house in Kailua in the 60's...I can only dream of what I would still be doing in HI if I had a house purchased many years ago and 1 1/2 acres near Lanikai! Thats wonderful and it sounds like you've worked very hard and earned every bit of it!! What are your thoughts on San Diego? Since we came back to CA just 8 months ago from HI we're trying to find a nice spot in So CA near some WATER! Any advice appreciated...sorry to get off track a bit.

I like San Diego. I first came there in 1977, and have never really left - except for the five months in Hawaii every year. I suggest you take your questions to the city-data board for San Diego, here:

San Diego Forum - Relocation, Moving, Local City Discussions - City-Data Forum

Hank

[tjax1000]

Hi,

There are some jobs on Kauai that might appeal to you at PMRF. There are not many software jobs but if your skillset is flexible and you're flexible on how much you want to earn, you can probably find something. Also, check out Tech Jobs Hawaii - Where Hawaii's Employers and Qualified Job Seekers Connect

Most people will give you cautious advice in regard to moving to Hawaii and especially the neighbor islands. (As you'll see, I am no different.) Most people that move here end up moving back. Lots of people move here knowing they will be okay with limited shopping and so forth, only to find something totally unexpected that they do not like.

One thing I noticed is that you are a very respectful person. I assume you appreciate the same respect in return. Unless you are in a subdivision with strict HOA rules, you may or may not have issues. Unfortunately it is expensive to live here so many homes have more than one family. It isn't uncommon to find that your neighbor has noisy dogs or a large number of chickens in the back yard. Most homes don't have AC so your windows are open constantly, thus making the noise problem worse. A person usually dare not complain or things get worse, fast.

Personally, I think racism is slightly overstated here. The problem is perhaps misdiagnosed- in my mind it is a localism issue. Since I've been here I've seen signs and bumper stickers as follows:
"Locals grew here, haoles flew here"
"F* the tourists"
"Welcome to Kauai, now go home"
"Die, developers, die"
"Respect the locals"
"For sale never white man"
etc., etc.

Occasionally a white resident or a tourist gets beaten up by a local, and this is obviously a bad thing. However it doesn't happen enough for me to fear it or consider it to be a serious risk to my health.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the neighbor islands have limited medical capability, and there is a doctor and nurse shortage state wide. It isn't uncommon to have to fly to Honolulu for medical procedures that can't be preformed on the neighbor islands. You may end up having to stay in a hotel if you need checkups after the procedure. With Aloha out of business, inter-island airfares are on their way back up.

I think some people try "too hard" to try to fit in here. When I lived on the mainland, I had neighbors from many countries around the world. To respect them and become friends, I really only expected a couple things- that they speak English and earn their own living. I would never expect that they abandon their original culture. That is what makes the US a great place! Some people come here and think they way to fit in is to become an activist for something that they feel benefits the local people (whether it actually does or not is irrelevant.) As a result people here protest everything and anything. It gets a little annoying after a while.

For us, it was a great career opportunity that made it reasonable to live here. Otherwise, we wouldn't have done it. Hawaii is like no place in the world and a little bit of the joy you get from vacationing here can in fact find its way into your daily life when you live here- but there is a lot more too it. Just keep in mind that most people who move here and move back "thought" it would work for them- after all it is no secret that Kauai is light on shopping and far away from the rest of the world. However, all disclaimers aside, I really like it here and never suffered from island fever. I hope this helps.

Aloha,
Brian

[HankDfrmSD]

Originally Posted by mirkim

Our cats are chipped, they have collars and they do routinely visit to our vet. They have all their paper in order.

That may not be enough. Hawaii has some very specific requirements. Be sure to read them thoroughly, and go over them with your vet:

Animal Quarantine Information — Hawaii Department of Agriculture

Hank