A Solution to Hawaii's Housing Crisis? (Honolulu: sales, rent, mortgage)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Except I proved it already. Did nobody read my link?

Folks are really smoking something if you think pineapple and sugar cane workers made good money.

Whether you proved your point or not is not what I addressed in noting that lack of data doesn’t mean a premise is *false* … a simple point of classic logic 101.

Beyond that, I haven’t yet read the link and will do so. But your premise - lack of data equals false premise - is faulty aside from the topic.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by NearFantastica

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ho...!4d-157.867411

Um yeah?

Again, I presume you are not familiar with Hawaii’s geography … specifically in relation to water liveaboard potential. I’ve actually lived aboard small boats and large ships in the areas your map cites. I know Hawaii’s waters and harbors. I also lived aboard ships in Asia including Hong Kong and the Philippines and Vietnam.

If you are really curious to know why Honolulu harbor, and Sand Island waters, Keehi Lagoon, Ala Wai, Kewalo Basin, Pear Harbor - are not suitable / possible venues for liveaboard communities, I can continue the conversation. No offense intended whatsoever. Your curiosity is perfectly ok with me.

[TAM1972]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

I don’t smoke. If you can’t prove it (and I did) then your premise of affordable housing back 30 years is false.

It’s actually just common sense. Oahu has never been some utopia of cheap housing

A bridge too far. Truth doesn't rely on what evidence can be dug up at any point in time by any particular advocate.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

But your premise - lack of data equals false premise - is faulty aside from the topic.

Saying this nicely but you clearly aren’t a math or science major.

That’s like we think vaccine will work - we don’t really know - but we hope so.

I presented an actual article. Nobody has yet to counter it. It’s incredibly obvious at least to me based on data Oahu residents make way more than 1990s ag workers.

[Mikala43]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Saying this nicely but you clearly aren’t a math or science major.

That’s like we think vaccine will work - we don’t really know - but we hope so.

I presented an actual article. Nobody has yet to counter it. It’s incredibly obvious at least to me based on data Oahu residents make way more than 1990s ag workers.

All your article says is it's always been expensive to buy a house in Hawaii, a point which no one has disagreed with.

The question I was asking is it more expensive now, relative to average wages, etc.

You said it was just as expensive 30 years ago, my suspicion that I posted is that it may be more expensive now.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by Mikala43

The question I was asking is it more expensive now, relative to average wages, etc.

You said it was just as expensive 30 years ago, my suspicion that I posted is that it may be more expensive now.

The standard of living is certainly much higher in Hawaii than it was in the pineapple or sugar cane days 30 years ago but if someone has data the ag culture back then somehow was better would love to see that data.

An ag culture has never in modern society been what many consider a decent standard of living.

[Mikala43]

It wasn't ag culture, or at least that would only be a subsection of what what I was asking about.

It's not like there wasn't a HUGE tourism market and middle class families in the 1970s and beyond.

I know great grandfather (in law) worked as a police officer, and his wife stayed at home.... and they bought a house, though it was in Hawaii Kai. They had no assistance with money, and 6 kids in Catholic School. I'm trying to remember the rest of the family, and most did buy houses in Hawaii Kai because they were a lot cheaper, but all had normal jobs, and were young when they bought.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by Mikala43

It wasn't ag culture, or at least that would only be a subsection of what what I was asking about.

It's not like there wasn't a HUGE tourism market and middle class families in the 1970s and beyond.

Tourism 30 years ago was roughly half from 2019 levels. It wasn't HUGE. Hawaii didn't even get a million tourists until the late 60's.

If someone has numbers that the standard of living in Hawaii was higher in the early 1990's than today I'd love to see them.

[Mikala43]

I guess it depends when in the 90s. Prices dropped, and I ended up being able to buy my first house in 98, and I think our income was around 70K. Something we couldn't really afford earlier.


Here are housing prices 75 through 20. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/HISTHPI

Average wages have not done the same.

But we will agree to disagree. Because of lack of actual data makes both our opinions merely that, opinions.

[Mikala43]

This is close. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/S...000500000003SA


So wages went up 50% and housing went up 300%.

/someone will want to double check, I did this as a drive by.