Racism: Not in my experience (Kaneohe, Kihei: rental, find a job, public school)

[manoagirl]

Actually, I think there is a reason that there are "a lot of posts about racism" here - but I don't think it's because there is a lot of racism, I think there is an ulterior motive by a select few.

Aloha, I actually agree with that theory because I think when a person is unable to fit into a culture for what ever reasons, they assume it was because of their race. When in fact it could have been because of the way they carried themselves, or just their personality. So then they cry racism as an accuse because that way they are no longer forced to look at themselves or make any changes on their end. Also it an easier way out for them to save face. all because they could not handle the pressure of integrating into another culture. Plus since they were unable to handle living on the Islands they try to ruin it for others by making them overly paranoid. One must always consider the source first!!

[JLeez808]

Originally Posted by DBale

If you read enough of their postings, you'll begin to see a pattern. They don't claim to be victims, instead they make claims of the prevalence. ...
Speaking for myself, my family and the many, many people from the mainland I have spoken to - NOT ONE has ever heard, seen or been a victim of racism. If it was as prevalent as it said, surely we'd have heard from someone by now?

Guess what? I moved here 16 years ago when I was 15 and had to deal with A LOT of racism. I'm half-haole/half-"Japanee" and experienced TOTAL culture shock. But yes, like NVplumber was noting, me and my twin brother were cocky mainland rich haoles who went to Punahou, got to drive our Mom's car, lived in an expensive high-rise overlooking Honolulu, and were basically inept and unaware of "real" local culture in Hawaii and its history.

Though everyday life at Punahou was a breeze, venturing into "Local" spots is where we got into trouble. Me and my brother were chased out of Sandy Beach & Ice Palace and pretty much scared s**tless wherever we went where we were surrounded by local people. It didn't help that were were only 145lbs, never had to be a minority, couldn't speak pidgin, and were never taught to scrap or stand up for ourselves. It didn't matter- we weren't allowed to leave cuz we were still minors living with our parents, we just had to deal with it.

Anyways after years and years of hazing and learning the hard way me and my brother finally cracked and figured out the local life. Since then we've learned so much and gained an appreciation for Hawaii, its people, and the way of life. We both get "choke" local friends, speak "real kine pidgin", and most importantly understand and enjoy local culture, history, food, language, music, humor, BBQ's, karaoke, etc. In fact we've almost lost all of our mainland ties. It took about 8 years to get the real deal education and even at 16 years I still feel "mainland" around some super hardcore Hawaiians or 4th/5th generation Japanese locals.

I now live in a somewhat poor but heavily local neighborhood (Palolo/Kaimuki) and work in local kitchens as a cook and most if not all of my friends and coworkers are local. I now catch myself experiencing my own disdain towards "cocky mainlanders" as I once was and have myself given "stink-eye" or laughed pretty openly at some super "mainland haoles" wearing aviator glasses and A&F. Is it right/wrong? Well I also just returned to UH Manoa and have made some decent mainland friends...

So its not always race if you ask me...its about ure understanding and respect and loyalty to local culture. I know plenty of "local haoles" now. One of them is my best friend who's a site boss on construction sites on Maui. Samoans, Tongans, and Hawaiians always try to get in his face to try intimidate him but he doesn't budge. He speaks pidgin, scraps, and drinks just like them so they end up becoming friends and respecting each other. Also, local people want to differentiate themselves from mainland culture in a lot of ways. There adherence to it inevitably and unintentionally (or intentionally-depending on the person) makes mainland people feel like outsiders. BTW...some Hawaiians even hate the local asians so...u just can't win sometimes!

DBale I have to ask where u and ur kids live and what school they go to...Usually its middle/upper class areas where people feel "magically safe" from racism in Hawaii. But those place don't represent all of Hawaii...in fact quite the opposite.

I also noticed that Maui and Kauai have way larger haole populations proprotionately than does Oahu. Does that make it easier to be haole on those islands? Is that how some people there are "escaping" racism?

Sorry for long post...I'm actually an Ethnic Studies major now too so...anyways thanks if u read this far.

[manoagirl]

"mainland haoles" wearing aviator glasses"

Aloha what is wrong with wearing aviator glasses? They are popular in California?

[maui08]

Originally Posted by JLeez808

Guess what? I moved here 16 years ago when I was 15 and had to deal with A LOT of racism. I'm half-haole/half-"Japanee" and experienced TOTAL culture shock. But yes, like NVplumber was noting, me and my twin brother were cocky mainland rich haoles who went to Punahou, got to drive our Mom's car, lived in an expensive high-rise overlooking Honolulu, and were basically inept and unaware of "real" local culture in Hawaii and its history.

Though everyday life at Punahou was a breeze, venturing into "Local" spots is where we got into trouble. Me and my brother were chased out of Sandy Beach & Ice Palace and pretty much scared s**tless wherever we went where we were surrounded by local people. It didn't help that were were only 145lbs, never had to be a minority, couldn't speak pidgin, and were never taught to scrap or stand up for ourselves. It didn't matter- we weren't allowed to leave cuz we were still minors living with our parents, we just had to deal with it.

Anyways after years and years of hazing and learning the hard way me and my brother finally cracked and figured out the local life. Since then we've learned so much and gained an appreciation for Hawaii, its people, and the way of life. We both get "choke" local friends, speak "real kine pidgin", and most importantly understand and enjoy local culture, history, food, language, music, humor, BBQ's, karaoke, etc. In fact we've almost lost all of our mainland ties. It took about 8 years to get the real deal education and even at 16 years I still feel "mainland" around some super hardcore Hawaiians or 4th/5th generation Japanese locals.

I now live in a somewhat poor but heavily local neighborhood (Palolo/Kaimuki) and work in local kitchens as a cook and most if not all of my friends and coworkers are local. I now catch myself experiencing my own disdain towards "cocky mainlanders" as I once was and have myself given "stink-eye" or laughed pretty openly at some super "mainland haoles" wearing aviator glasses and A&F. Is it right/wrong? Well I also just returned to UH Manoa and have made some decent mainland friends...

So its not always race if you ask me...its about ure understanding and respect and loyalty to local culture. I know plenty of "local haoles" now. One of them is my best friend who's a site boss on construction sites on Maui. Samoans, Tongans, and Hawaiians always try to get in his face to try intimidate him but he doesn't budge. He speaks pidgin, scraps, and drinks just like them so they end up becoming friends and respecting each other. Also, local people want to differentiate themselves from mainland culture in a lot of ways. There adherence to it inevitably and unintentionally (or intentionally-depending on the person) makes mainland people feel like outsiders. BTW...some Hawaiians even hate the local asians so...u just can't win sometimes!

DBale I have to ask where u and ur kids live and what school they go to...Usually its middle/upper class areas where people feel "magically safe" from racism in Hawaii. But those place don't represent all of Hawaii...in fact quite the opposite.

I also noticed that Maui and Kauai have way larger haole populations proprotionately than does Oahu. Does that make it easier to be haole on those islands? Is that how some people there are "escaping" racism?

Sorry for long post...I'm actually an Ethnic Studies major now too so...anyways thanks if u read this far.

So, you basically changed who you are/were to be more "local"....? We have lived in the islands for over 13 years and have never once had the desire to simply speak pidgin just to fit in. Where is your own sense of character? Would you start speaking like a southerner if you moved to Texas or a New Yorker if you moved to NY? You are basically covering up the real issue by fitting in so no one will bother you....do you really think the real locals believe you are one of them because you throw out some slang? So for anyone moving to Hawaii, just speak pidgin, drink and scrap and you'll be just fine.

The one refreshing thing about living here has been the fact that everyday we are asked, "Where are you visiting from....?" Once people stop asking you this, you should start worrying. Most haoles that attempt to fit in become these lazy, dirty individuals that take the laid back stereotype to an extreme. We do not run across racism daily and treat everyone with respect. We have tons of hawaiian, japanese, chinese, white, black, hispanic, etc friends. I realize race issues exist everywhere but what bothers me is when people write that if you just fit in and act local in Hawaii, people will respect you.....how lame is that?! Why would anyone respect you for giving up the real person you are to become a fake? I have never experienced this and in fact, most locals I know appreciate me being who I am and not some guy who shows up to work or the BBQ's talking pidgin, drinking beer and scrapping just to "fit in". If I did this, the many local friends I have would be laughing for days.

[cynmkolohe]

I don't see that JLeez has "changed who he is", rather--as he has grown up here--he has let this place shape him in ways that has allowed him to be able to exist comfortably within the places where he lives/works/socializes.

I moved here as a young adult and do not believe that I have ever given up my core values, but I can certainly say that living in Hawaii has changed me in some way and has given me the ability to adapt in circumstances that were unfamiliar to me before I moved here. And for that I am thankful.

I can't remember the last time someone asked me where I was visiting from...with maybe one exception--when my SO and I were having drinks at the bar at the Mauna Lani hotel on the Kohala coast last year. It was enough of a surprise to us that we laughed about it for a while.

[maui08]

Originally Posted by cynmkolohe

I don't see that JLeez has "changed who he is", rather--as he has grown up here--he has let this place shape him in ways that has allowed him to be able to exist comfortably within the places where he lives/works/socializes.

I moved here as a young adult and do not believe that I have ever given up my core values, but I can certainly say that living in Hawaii has changed me in some way and has given me the ability to adapt in circumstances that were unfamiliar to me before I moved here. And for that I am thankful.

I can't remember the last time someone asked me where I was visiting from...with maybe one exception--when my SO and I were having drinks at the bar at the Mauna Lani hotel on the Kohala coast last year. It was enough of a surprise to us that we laughed about it for a while.

I completely disagree. If you relocated to the "hood" would you start wearing your pants around your ankles, hat on sideways, blasting rap music, drinking 40's, etc just to "adapt" to society there....??? Or if you moved to the south would you buy a cowboy hat, a pick-up truck, played country music, talked with a southern accent......? I actually know many young/middle aged adults who were born and raised here in Hawaii and none of them come across as "local". They actually refuse to let themselves. It's the ones who move over here from the main land and think they have to change something about themselves to fit in....this equals low self esteem. People have more respect for each other when they are just who they are and except and realize everyone is different.

[manoagirl]

If you relocated to the "hood" would you start wearing your pants around your ankles, hat on sideways, blasting rap music, drinking 40's, etc just to "adapt" to society there....??? Or if you moved to the south would you buy a cowboy hat, a pick-up truck, played country music, talked with a southern accent...

That would depend upon the person If I wanted to call a place my home yes I would try to adapt and fit into the community. When I came to the mainland I had to learned standard English, I dressed differently, no more slippers, no lava lava out doors. Not understanding if a person was insulting me or complimenting me. Having to learn American expression.It took time but I did it.

When I lived in the south I did buy a pair of cowboy boots, and learned to ride horses, I was able to bond with the southern culture, I also learned how to cook southern food. People were friendly and great, unlike the stereotype one always hears of the racist southerners, People are people, when people see you trying to learn or fit in others often reach out and try to help you, because maybe they also once felt like a foreigner. Many people view it as you showing respect for their way or life or culture. Not everyone desire to fit in and some people find themselves feeling isolated and bitter and blaming other people all because they are unwilling to let go of some of their own beliefs or prejudices.

[JLeez808]

Originally Posted by maui08

I completely disagree. If you relocated to the "hood" would you start wearing your pants around your ankles, hat on sideways, blasting rap music, drinking 40's, etc just to "adapt" to society there....??? Or if you moved to the south would you buy a cowboy hat, a pick-up truck, played country music, talked with a southern accent......? I actually know many young/middle aged adults who were born and raised here in Hawaii and none of them come across as "local". They actually refuse to let themselves. It's the ones who move over here from the main land and think they have to change something about themselves to fit in....this equals low self esteem. People have more respect for each other when they are just who they are and except and realize everyone is different.

BTW thanks for the support cynmkolohe..that is exactly my point. I've lived here more than half my life now. Before moving to Hawaii I moved from place to place..Tokyo, NY, CA, Puerto Rico, Ohio, and AZ...I don't even remember living in all of those places I was so young. The longest I've lived anywhere else was Ventura, CA for 8 years. Again I've been in Hawaii 16 years. So I've lived in HI exactly twice as long as any other place in my life. And ,the total sum of all those places put together is still less than the time I've spent here! Why wouldn't I associate my identity with HI? Maui08 I'm of the notion that u came with a family from the mainland? May I ask how old u were when u moved here? My point is u obviously created a mainland identity prior to moving here that u and ur family find very important and cling to. I didn't. I'm also of the assumption that u must live in a "nice cozy suburb" on Maui where racism and class-issues are not so much a problem. Try living in the dirty chaotic urban sprawl of Honolulu, u'll find it much different. Also, Maui has a larger mainland haole population proportionately (the largest in all the islands) than does Oahu and has historically, since the 60's & 70's, been more open towards them. I think we DO come from differnet cultural geographies within Hawaii and that plays an importnat part here.

Also, I didn't learn local ways and pidgin "just to fit in". In fact, as I wrote, I was resistant at first. Eventually I fell in love with the culture and it became a part of me. I still have some mainland ways..but they're small now and I'm not ashamed of them but I do reserve them for when I'm around other mainland people. I find it easier to communicate with "Local" people in pidgin and they do respect it more, unlike what u're saying. They respect that I've learned their customs and their language and it makes them more comfortable...Local people are pleasantly surprised when I know what "make die dead" and "hanabata days" is. They don't look down upon me..that's stupid. They think, "Wow this hapa-haole born on the mainland knows what 'hapai' and 'bumbye u learn' means!"...I think they're honored in a way. In fact I don't think I could survive in Honolulu if I didn't speak pidgin...I would just FEEL like an outsider all the time...unless I was with other mainland people and we all chose to isolate ourselves (which they do, believe it or not, in HNL).

Also my remark about the drinking, scrapping, and talking pidgin had to do with working class construction workers, not everyone in HI. If u didn't know about that general commonality amongst young construction workers than u've obviously never worked in the labor field.

Do u "shaka" in traffic? Do u eat "poke and rice"? Do u listen to Hawaiian music? In other words, have u adopted some cultural lifestyles and not some others? Can u speak pidgin if u wanted to? Do u end ur sentences in "yeah" (ie..Ho the weather is nice today yeah!)? If I were to move to a "hood" or to the South or NYC I think that, yeah, eventually I would start to talk like them. First of all, u have to look at why u are moving to those places. Why would I move to a hood? Texas? I may choose NOT to move there BECAUSE of the different culture and because everyone else wears cowboy hats and I would feel like an outsider. Along those same lines, why did u move to Maui? If u're so opposed to adopting "Local" culture and hold onto ur mainland values, lifestyle, and language so dearly why did u leave there?

Everyone knows the quote "When in Rome, do as the Romans". Do u not believe in it? In addition, I'd like to add my own second part to the quote: "If u're not going to 'do as the Romans' then why are you in Rome?!"

Anyways,I have to get going but I am enjoying this discussion. I don't enjoy u implying that I am somehow "weak" or "lack character" because I've let my mainland side slip away and have adopted a local lifestlye. Didn't Hawaii's first immigrant workers during the plantaion era have to do that to survive withone another here? Just some thoughts....more later.

SHOOTS!!!

[JLeez808]

Originally Posted by manoagirl

That would depend upon the person If I wanted to call a place my home yes I would try to adapt and fit into the community. When I came to the mainland I had to learned standard English, I dressed differently, no more slippers, no lava lava out doors. Not understanding if a person was insulting me or complimenting me. Having to learn American expression.It took time but I did it.

When I lived in the south I did buy a pair of cowboy boots, and learned to ride horses, I was able to bond with the southern culture, I also learned how to cook southern food. People were friendly and great, unlike the stereotype one always hears of the racist southerners, People are people, when people see you trying to learn or fit in others often reach out and try to help you, because maybe they also once felt like a foreigner. Many people view it as you showing respect for their way or life or culture. Not everyone desire to fit in and some people find themselves feeling isolated and bitter and blaming other people all because they are unwilling to let go of some of their own beliefs or prejudices.

Thanks manoagirl I agree with u completely....

If u don't mind..which island u from originally?

[maui08]

Originally Posted by JLeez808

BTW thanks for the support cynmkolohe..that is exactly my point. I've lived here more than half my life now. Before moving to Hawaii I moved from place to place..Tokyo, NY, CA, Puerto Rico, Ohio, and AZ...I don't even remember living in all of those places I was so young. The longest I've lived anywhere else was Ventura, CA for 8 years. Again I've been in Hawaii 16 years. So I've lived in HI exactly twice as long as any other place in my life. And ,the total sum of all those places put together is still less than the time I've spent here! Why wouldn't I associate my identity with HI? Maui08 I'm of the notion that u came with a family from the mainland? May I ask how old u were when u moved here? My point is u obviously created a mainland identity prior to moving here that u and ur family find very important and cling to. I didn't. I'm also of the assumption that u must live in a "nice cozy suburb" on Maui where racism and class-issues are not so much a problem. Try living in the dirty chaotic urban sprawl of Honolulu, u'll find it much different. Also, Maui has a larger mainland haole population proportionately (the largest in all the islands) than does Oahu and has historically, since the 60's & 70's, been more open towards them. I think we DO come from differnet cultural geographies within Hawaii and that plays an importnat part here.

Also, I didn't learn local ways and pidgin "just to fit in". In fact, as I wrote, I was resistant at first. Eventually I fell in love with the culture and it became a part of me. I still have some mainland ways..but they're small now and I'm not ashamed of them but I do reserve them for when I'm around other mainland people. I find it easier to communicate with "Local" people in pidgin and they do respect it more, unlike what u're saying. They respect that I've learned their customs and their language and it makes them more comfortable...Local people are pleasantly surprised when I know what "make die dead" and "hanabata days" is. They don't look down upon me..that's stupid. They think, "Wow this hapa-haole born on the mainland knows what 'hapai' and 'bumbye u learn' means!"...I think they're honored in a way. In fact I don't think I could survive in Honolulu if I didn't speak pidgin...I would just FEEL like an outsider all the time...unless I was with other mainland people and we all chose to isolate ourselves (which they do, believe it or not, in HNL).

Also my remark about the drinking, scrapping, and talking pidgin had to do with working class construction workers, not everyone in HI. If u didn't know about that general commonality amongst young construction workers than u've obviously never worked in the labor field.

Do u "shaka" in traffic? Do u eat "poke and rice"? Do u listen to Hawaiian music? In other words, have u adopted some cultural lifestyles and not some others? Can u speak pidgin if u wanted to? Do u end ur sentences in "yeah" (ie..Ho the weather is nice today yeah!)? If I were to move to a "hood" or to the South or NYC I think that, yeah, eventually I would start to talk like them. First of all, u have to look at why u are moving to those places. Why would I move to a hood? Texas? I may choose NOT to move there BECAUSE of the different culture and because everyone else wears cowboy hats and I would feel like an outsider. Along those same lines, why did u move to Maui? If u're so opposed to adopting "Local" culture and hold onto ur mainland values, lifestyle, and language so dearly why did u leave there?

Everyone knows the quote "When in Rome, do as the Romans". Do u not believe in it? In addition, I'd like to add my own second part to the quote: "If u're not going to 'do as the Romans' then why are you in Rome?!"

Anyways,I have to get going but I am enjoying this discussion. I don't enjoy u implying that I am somehow "weak" or "lack character" because I've let my mainland side slip away and have adopted a local lifestlye. Didn't Hawaii's first immigrant workers during the plantaion era have to do that to survive withone another here? Just some thoughts....more later.

SHOOTS!!!

I am not trying to knock you. I have lived in Hawaii for over 15 years and do actually enjoy living here. Yes, I am a family guy with kids in my late 30's. I have also lived (when single) in Honolulu....parts of Kalihi, Ewa Beach and Pearl City so I know probably more than you do about rough neighborhoods. Nice, cozy suburb on Maui....try small, expensive condo on Maui!

Can I speak pidgin....? I could teach a 5 year old to speak pidgin but to answer your question, yes. I CAN speak it but never do. I associate with local guys all the time and simply talk to them in my own language....by the way....I am a licensed contractor so working in the trades is all I know so don't make it sound like all hard working tradesman all drink, fight and talk pidgin after work.