Racism: Not in my experience (Honolulu, Kihei: living, moving, car)

[manoagirl]

Aloha Jleez808, I was raised On Oahu. You know you made an interesting point about "why a person would move to Hawaii in the first place??? I was also curious as to why someone would move here especially If they are so opposed to adopting "Local" culture and hold onto to their mainland values, lifestyle, and language so dearly why did they leave the mainland in the first place??? This is difficult for many locals to understand and comprehend and many mainlanders are ask to just Leave the Island and go back to the mainland if they are so oppose to the local way of life.

If a person was born and raised here I am sure that they consider themselves locals,especially if they went to through the public school system. Many locals are taught when speaking with a person from the mainland use standard English if they know it, some locals that speak "da kine" hard core pigeon may not of had the opportunity to leave the Islands or visit the mainland to practice it. therefore just because one may know young middle age adults that don't speak pigeon and were born and raised here means nothing. Why would a person speak pigeon to you knowing you speak standard English and so can they??

Before I left the Island my last two years I hung out with a few Haole friends that help me with standard English. When I first arrived on the mainland people would ask me what language did I speak. I replied English. All locals that move to the mainland are expected to integrate into mainland culture. People often think that they have to give up their own culture first NO you are learning to become bilingual in languages and culture. It teaches you to be able to interact with many different races not just your own.

[cal bear]

White Americans, by and large, rarely find themselves in situations where they are the minority. They usually have the ability to run away, shut themselves up in exclusive residential and social enclaves, and demand that everyone else come "up" to their ways of living - speaking English, deferring to their "authority", knowing your place on the ladder, etc.
Much harder to pull this off on islands 3000 miles from San Francisco.

My ex-girlfriend, who is white, left Hawaii in the early 80's saying that life was hell for her two boys - constant bullying, taunting, etc. But it wasn't until I went to Hawaii myself years later did I get a fuller picture; rampant under employment amongst Native Hawaiians, those who could find work tended to secure only part-time jobs without benefits, and those who wished to continue a life of fishing and farming were losing their land because they just couldn't make enough to pay their property taxes.

Heck, c'mon folks - you take over someone's land, reduce the population to second class status, give them Jesus to soothe their pain and counter this historical injustice, then complain that they continue to have an "attitude"??? And then have the nerve to call it "racism"?!!???

I hate to break it to y'all, but you have to have dominant power in order to be racist. Yes, we all can be equal opportunity bigots, but to be a racist requires military, economic, and social power backing you up.

Native Hawaiians have none of this. When people of color feel the pain and complain, it's considered whining. When white folks get a paper cut, the whole world has to sympathize with the injustice of such an atrocity.

[cal bear]

Maui wrote:

>I completely disagree. If you relocated to the "hood" would you start wearing your pants around your ankles, hat on sideways, blasting rap music, drinking 40's, etc just to "adapt" to society there....??? Or if you moved to the south would you buy a cowboy hat, a pick-up truck, played country music, talked with a southern accent......? I actually know many young/middle aged adults who were born and raised here in Hawaii and none of them come across as "local". They actually refuse to let themselves. It's the ones who move over here from the main land and think they have to change something about themselves to fit in....this equals low self esteem. People have more respect for each other when they are just who they are and except and realize everyone is different.


Oh, well. So why all the fuss about "English Only" raging on the mainland? If Hispanics and other immigrants have to prove their citizenship by speaking English, then you're basically saying that they, too, are giving up their core values and becoming fake to fit in. According to your line of reasoning, they will never fit in or be respected by the "local" or national majority because they've given up who they truly are. If it's good enough for "them" why isn't it good enough for you? Why would learning pidgin make people "lazy and dirty" as you say? Says a lot about how you really feel about the people and the culture.

[manoagirl]

The single most important distinction between White Americans culture and local culture is that White America culture is maintained to believed in individualism (that is, the rights and freedom of the individual assuming greater importance than of society as a whole), whereas all of the other (Asian and native Hawaiian) groups were what we call collectivist cultures, in which the greater good and benefit of the entire group far supersedes the importance of its individual members.

The ancient Hawaiians maintained very strong beliefs in collective welfare and group social harmony, so did the Chinese and the Japanese, and the Filipinos. By contrast, White Americans (and most westerners, believed in the individual’s right to elevate his own concerns above that of the group in almost any economic or social aspect of life. The self-centered nature of western cultures thus helped foster the long-established local antipathy towards haoles by the Hawaiian locals the first contact, with whites may be traced back to Captain Cook’s original visit to the islands in the year 1778.

Coping mechanisms that ‘ Locals and Hawaiians have developed to enable them to understand each other and interact appropriately. One of these is a generally accepted pattern of jokingly referring to those outside one’s ethnic group using ethnic terms that in modern, politically correct America would be considered disparagingly racist. Thus the habit of referring to other racial group with slang terms that at first glance may seem somewhat insulting (to westerners) has come to be an accepted and common habit among non-haole Hawaiians. Terms like ‘Katonks’, ‘Buddha-heads’, and others like this to describe Japanese-Hawaiians are therefore unremarkable in Hawaii (or 'Pake' for Chinese and 'Manang' for Filipino). They are merely part of the indigenous Hawaiian cultural coping mechanism that allows these various groups to interact less antagonistically with each other. In this context, the word haole is not as much a racial slight as simply a conveniently descriptive term. The term 'F----ing haole', on the other hand, leaves no doubt about its being an intentional antagonistic slur.

KKK are racists, and they don't have friends of different ethnicity or culture other than their own white culture. Those who say we are racist are most likely racist themselves.

[JLeez808]

I actually got to spend some time in Kailua, Kaneohe, and Hawaii Kai last night. I rarely get to go to those sides of those islands.

It made me realize that maybe I live in the small microcosm where racism still exists. Yes Kalihi and Ewa Beach are "more nuts" than Kaimuki/Palolo. I had the opportunity to move to Kalihi with some of my Fikipino friends but I figured it would be too rough...just walking to the store, riding my moped around, etc. I probably wouldn't get jumped bcz I knew ppl (but who knows) but I could just imagine stares and people wondering..."what is he doing over here?" Life is hard enough...why add racial and cultural tension to it if u don't have to.

So I chose Kaimuki which can be very friendly but also has the heavy asian, hawaiian, samoan, tongan element. Palolo housing is not far away and those people frequent the 7-11 I live right next to. Walking out my front door can be an adventure in racial/cultural tight-rope walking!

But yes, visiting the other parts of the island last night made me realize that many people are NOT exposed to this and don't have to. In fact, they make enough money to not HAVE to deal with it. They shouldn't have to..thats why people have traditionally moved "to the burbs"...to get away from the city stress and tension! It really makes me look forward to finishing college and "getting out" too one day. (But don't the burbs get boring though sometimes...ugh...jk)

About the pidgin, I like manoagirl's idea about being bilingual...it truly is. Last night I hung out with my friends coworkers in Hawaii Kai. There were some locals but mostly mainlanders. I was noticing how me and my friend (who was born & raised here) would switch the pidgin on/off depending on who we were talking to with relative ease.

On a side note some of the mainlanders were actually shunning me! I'm not sure why...maybe cuz they thought I was "crashing" their employee party. Maybe it was personal. I started to get kinda mad. Anyways I got over it, had a few more drinks and ended up having way more fun hanging out with the local people. At a time where I was just starting to take pride in "reassociating" with mainland people I was kinda bummed though...but I'll keep trying.

I can speak proper english but I do get kinda "irked" when I hear loud california or other mainland accents sometimes. I'm trying to get over it though. I cringe when I hear a person who lives here pronounce Hawaii as "HAWAAAI". I'm sure u know what I'm talking about.

Maui08 its cool that u can carry urself the way u do on Maui. I respect that...

[Jungjohann]

Guess I got lucky........Moved here, not intentionally, in 1975.......young, dumb Haole kid, 23 years old.....Couldn't find a job, bartending was my profession at the time, but did find a room for rent up on Welekehao Street in Kihei, with a very large Hawaiian family......Was there just a few days, and managed to get a job at Harry's Outrigger on Keawekapu beach, tending bar in the daytime. One of my first customers, Hawaiian guy, Kahale, shows up shortly after opening, asks for a beer......He looks really tired, so I asked him, 'Been a long night?", Kahale, "No,we just wen get one new guy stayin in da house, suckah snores likes there's no tomorrow, couldn't sleep much". Well, didn't take long to put two and two together, I was the guy doing the snoring......... At that time there were some 5 bars/restuarants in Kihei, and I got to know a lot of the local/Hawaiian guys right away, because I'ld comp, as in give away, every third beer. Pretty soon I was hanai, as in family, to the Akina family, the Moikeas, and the Awais, and I never had a problem with racism or any of it, and never have. But, you know what, I sure do miss those days..........

Aloha

[manoagirl]

Originally Posted by Jungjohann

Guess I got lucky........Moved here, not intentionally, in 1975.......young, dumb Haole kid, 23 years old.....Couldn't find a job, bartending was my profession at the time, but did find a room for rent up on Welekehao Street in Kihei, with a very large Hawaiian family......Was there just a few days, and managed to get a job at Harry's Outrigger on Keawekapu beach, tending bar in the daytime. One of my first customers, Hawaiian guy, Kahale, shows up shortly after opening, asks for a beer......He looks really tired, so I asked him, 'Been a long night?", Kahale, "No,we just wen get one new guy stayin in da house, suckah snores likes there's no tomorrow, couldn't sleep much". Well, didn't take long to put two and two together, I was the guy doing the snoring......... At that time there were some 5 bars/restuarants in Kihei, and I got to know a lot of the local/Hawaiian guys right away, because I'ld comp, as in give away, every third beer. Pretty soon I was hanai, as in family, to the Akina family, the Moikeas, and the Awais, and I never had a problem with racism or any of it, and never have. But, you know what, I sure do miss those days..........

Aloha

Aloha Sounds like you are laid back, and easy going type of a person not only that you had a sociable job being a bar tender. You probably have a nice personality and can talk to just about anyone on different levels. Also you don't come across like a snob and you wanted to make friends with the locals. Some people that come from the mainland stay far away from the locals. Most locals can tell if a person is REAL or a phony. Most importantly you established roots with Hawaiian families. Family is like having protection on the islands, I am sure you understand what I mean by that. Also l found it interesting how you referred to yourself as a "Young dumb Haole kid" that show you are also humble because you understood there was much to learn about the culture and Islands tradition. Many Haoles coming from the mainland now have such a difficult time being called a Haole, never mind referring to them self as one. In other words they are so Haole that they don't even know they are Haole. (smiles)

Aloha
Leilani

[Jungjohann]

Heck, I was a young dumb haole kid back in 1975, and, in 2008, I'm still a dumb haole, with absolutely no pilikia, as in problems, just a little older. Was at Foodland a while back, at the seafood counter, waiting for service, big local guy is standing next to me, has his baby in his arms, wife right next to him. Anyways, he's giving me stinkeye, big time. Look at him, and say, in my best Pidgen, (actually embarasses a lot of my local buddies, cause I do it so well), "Eh, bruddah, dat is one cute keiki, you one lucky guy, an, how come no more Hanalei poi, suckah is ono wit ahi poke", He looks at his wife, then looks at me, with this kind of......."How come dis older haole guy talk da kine???????" look on his face.......Anyways, the girl shows up at the counter, I tell da bruddah go ahead, he's like you was here first.......We get to talking, I mention the Akina family, he's related, all of the sudden we're instant family!!!!!! He's a lot younger than me, but recognizes a lot of the names....Go up to the checkout line, I'm standing there, tourist cuts right in front of me, I'm like, what the heck, she tells me she's been waiting longer than I have.........Whatevahs........Walking out to my car a rental Mustang about rear ends my car as I'm backing out of the parking space.......go figur.....Only in Hawaii....

Aloha

[manoagirl]

Eh, bruddah you should write a book for Haoles coming from the mainland those who are considering living on the islands, and break it down for them because they are having problems adjusting. The key is treat people the way you want to be treated, show respect and you will get respect. A persons attitude can make or break you. I wish that people on the mainland were like the local Haoles on the Islands to tell you the truth. I miss some of my Haole friends on the Island, they were No ka oi .(the best) Many have since move and I just lost touch.

[JLeez808]

Originally Posted by Jungjohann

Was at Foodland a while back, at the seafood counter, waiting for service, big local guy is standing next to me, has his baby in his arms, wife right next to him. Anyways, he's giving me stinkeye, big time. Look at him, and say, in my best Pidgen, (actually embarasses a lot of my local buddies, cause I do it so well), "Eh, bruddah, dat is one cute keiki, you one lucky guy, an, how come no more Hanalei poi, suckah is ono wit ahi poke", He looks at his wife, then looks at me, with this kind of......."How come dis older haole guy talk da kine???????" look on his face.......Anyways, the girl shows up at the counter, I tell da bruddah go ahead, he's like you was here first.......We get to talking, I mention the Akina family, he's related, all of the sudden we're instant family!!!!!! He's a lot younger than me, but recognizes a lot of the names....Go up to the checkout line, I'm standing there, tourist cuts right in front of me, I'm like, what the heck, she tells me she's been waiting longer than I have.........Whatevahs........Walking out to my car a rental Mustang about rear ends my car as I'm backing out of the parking space.......go figur.....Only in Hawaii....

Aloha

Yeah I got plenty little stories li dat. Theres only one way to speak da real kine pidgin and thats spending years here and it can throw local guys off big time (in a good way). Langauge is one of the most CRUCIAL elements of your culture and if u can speak real pidgin, local people know u're real. I use pidgin all the time around local people so they KNOW that I'm from here and BEEN HERE.

I like how it "lights up the room" when I got eat at UH Manoa campus. All the employees there are all local ladies and they must have to deal with mainland people all day long. When they get to speak to a local person I see what a treat it is for them. Sometimes, if some of their backs are turned, they even all turn around to see who it is thats actually speaking pdgin! Classic stuff! I love it...

Yeah I've "squashed sum beefs" using pidgin too...great way to dissolve a falsely percieved culture clash and make friends outta people that may be judging u on ur skin tone. It teaches them a humbling lesson too, don't forget, about how to not "judge one book by its cahvah"!!!