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I seem to be getting a tiny bit more aware, as this is the first time I haven't been bit by the Old Thread Syndrome (OTS) in quite a while.
OTS....sounds vaguely Scientology-like. I think Hubbard was always going on about becoming an OT, or Operating Thetan, or some screwy thing. Travolta would know for sure.
I've looked up apartments, they aren't really priced that bad outside of
Honolulu, but I could still afford to live downtown if I really wanted to. Money
isn't the problem. Finding a place that I can afford isn't the problem. The
problems are finding someone to rent from who will let me put half my paycheck
into rent (I think the guidelines say 'affordable' rent is 30% or less of your
total income), and then not alienating my neighbors once I move in. The latter
one is the big issue. I don't want to be alone, but it at least is drama-free.
I can't speak too much to rental prices in Oahu. I'm a LL myself and yes, I like my tenants to have at least 3x the rent. But the fact that your income is very steady should go in your favor. I use a collection site where my tenants can direct deposit the money - if you offer to do that you might have more luck.
Using the px/commissary system should help a little. Things are shockingly expensive there - even off of the strip at local grocery and drug stores. If you are downtown - there is a small px at the Hale Koa. I think that 100% disabled vets can stay at the Hale Koa for around $100/night.
Granted the majority of my time is spent in Waikiki - but it seems like the non-local homeless stick to the strip and surrounds. Some areas I don't go to any more since I'm now travelling with my young daughter - like Chinatown. I keep a zoo membership and we tend to go there to use their playground rather than at the park.
Given that I kinda keep to something of a schedule - I tend to see the same homeless people day same places every day, some of them are the same every visit to visit over the years. This leads me to think that there are very well established turfs. Most of the homeless we see are pretty mellow - I think they do better panhandling in the tourist areas and don't want to be rousted by the cops.
I can't speak too much to rental prices in Oahu. I'm a LL myself and yes, I like my tenants to have at least 3x the rent. But the fact that your income is very steady should go in your favor. I use a collection site where my tenants can direct deposit the money - if you offer to do that you might have more luck.
If you are downtown - there is a small px at the Hale Koa. I think that 100% disabled vets can stay at the Hale Koa for around $100/night.
Thank you for the tips! I had no idea the Hale Koa was even a thing.
*edit*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakeneko
This leads me to think that there are very well established turfs.
Oh, absolutely. That goes for anywhere. Homeless have their own society, and turfs are part of that regardless of what the income source is. For panhandlers it'll be a corner or a bench, the entryway to a building. For canners (recyclers) they'll have a route they check either on certain days or every day, at a certain time or near it. If they find you digging in their garbage can during or right before they usually get there, they'll usually either threaten you or just assault you outright. That's their beer money and they have nothing else to do or look forward to.
I am incredibly moved by this thread - especially this year's posts. OP, I want you to look around you and realize you are not alone. In the aloneness, you have millions who share your company. In the feelings of injustice regarding the world, the disconnection, the hopelessness, the uncertainty, and in your utter isolation, you are not alone. There are a million walking beside you, feeling the same thing, experiencing the same difficulties, finding nothing that works, and no one who cares. I hope that in some small way, that is comforting to you. In one way of thinking, that really sucks. But in another, it is a great thing - because it means that there are a ton of people out there who get you, even if you never meet them face to face. There are a ton of people who would relate without you having to explain. So many people think about things the way you do, have similar experiences to you, and know exactly where you're coming from. Maybe you're crazy, but you're not the only crazy one, you know? In some ways, maybe it's everybody else who's crazy. Even though you might not run into them, those million out there who share your life and your thoughts, they care about you. They would have compassion for what you're going through. They would get it, without your having to say a word.
Maybe that's not a reason for you to feel like you want to keep going. But maybe it can be a comfort in your life as you live it now, that just in the fact that you feel alone, you are not really alone. It's as if millions of people are holding your hand at the same time, feeling the same thing together with you.
There is nothing really I could say that magically fixes all that happened. But so few people have the courage to talk about feelings on C-D, and I think it is absolutely relevant to HI, and to these forums in general. Here we are, all writing in a community, asking about communities, trying to create a community. And we can't do it without the one thing that truly makes a community - the thing that binds all of us as humans, our human experience. Our relevance to each other. How we connect to each other. How we feel. Anyway, I appreciate it.
I would also note, that if you wanted to, there could be a life for you. You have real talent. If you wanted to write a book about your experiences, your desperation, and your perspective, it would have a real audience, and it would be relevant for a long time to come to people. I know for certain that it would. But you would need to be able to lift from some of this depression to find hope first, to have a direction and a point to share with people. I personally think you are missing part of the story, that there is life after sinking this low. I know there is because I know my own story. I know the stories of others. But it does have to come with a lot of internal work, a lot of willingness to change direction. And that's hard to do when you're so depressed and trying so hard to adjust to this idea of giving up, if only because you can see no other way forward.
I think this thread is relevant for another reason. There are problems at the heart of our society that we are not addressing. There is a reason that people like this continue to move to places like HI. Simply shutting down services for the homeless and pushing them elsewhere will not solve it. And simply adding services for the homeless will not solve it either. We need to be willing to face the root of what is causing people to reach this level of despair, disillusion, and disconnection in life. It is a combination of things that we as a society are doing utterly wrong, and in some cases that we simply have discovered no appropriate way of doing yet, that is causing this. And until we are willing to look our own failings in the eye as a culture, and as people, we are not going to be able to stop the steady tide of people who move to the edges of the Earth just to find a place to exist at all.
I wish you well, OP. I truly do. I don't have an easy answer, but I'm certainly glad you asked the question. That in itself takes bravery.
You're right, homelessness sucks. It is not a solution to people feeling disconnected with life, to restlessness, to pain, or to frustration. It solves none of these things. In many ways, being homeless in the US makes these things so much worse. Wandering, just because you have no home, or feel you need no home, does not give you a home. It does not actually create a space in which you belong. It doesn't solve any of the problems that people run away from - even when done at a beach. The thing that is inside a person that makes them restless, is always there. You feel it on the sand the same as you do in an apartment. But the doing of something always new does serve as a distraction for a while from the pain. Until you've been walking for years and one day you realize you didn't die, but your problems aren't solved either. There are just many new layers added now of trauma.
Maybe sitting on a beach feels better than sitting inside 4 walls. But if you feel haunted, you feel haunted. If you feel alone, that continues. The solution is complex, takes years of work, and lies within. It does not come from the external. People can move to HI, or to FL, or to CA, or wherever, if they choose. But where doesn't solve the problem. Because wherever one goes, you are still you. Sooner or later, one has to stop and face oneself. One can continue running, but it does not ever feel better until the problems causing it are addressed directly. And sand, and sun, and waves cannot fix that.
I hope people looking to solve their problems through becoming a beach bum/hobo will see this and think twice. It leads to MORE isolation, MORE trauma, more pain. You get to a point where you forget how to live indoors, or in society. But the pain hasn't really gone away. Becoming a wanderer is just a diversion from the issues that are still there, not getting resolved. The OP is struggling with issues that are not easy to resolve. But willingly going into this life before you have gotten that far, is likely to lead you down a path that at a certain point is very hard to turn back. If you know of any way to reach out through a person you can trust, do it. Before you reach a point where you trust no one in life anymore.
As for the OP, I hope something I said made you feel less alone in this journey. I personally feel that life ain't over 'til it's over. And as long as there is breath, there is fight. I myself will go down swinging. I figure I've got nothing to lose, I won't stop trying radically different approaches from my last until something works, I won't stop taking risks until I'm dead. Why take myself out if God hasn't taken me out yet? If I am on borrowed time, I might as well make the most of it, and enjoy the hell out of it. And that policy, thus far, has worked for me, and has dragged me out of some deep, deep ditches. As they say, where there is life, there is hope. It might get better yet.
Thank you for the tips! I had no idea the Hale Koa was even a thing.
*edit*
Oh, absolutely. That goes for anywhere. Homeless have their own society, and turfs are part of that regardless of what the income source is. For panhandlers it'll be a corner or a bench, the entryway to a building. For canners (recyclers) they'll have a route they check either on certain days or every day, at a certain time or near it. If they find you digging in their garbage can during or right before they usually get there, they'll usually either threaten you or just assault you outright. That's their beer money and they have nothing else to do or look forward to.
The Hale Koa is actually pretty decent. It's one of the few hotels on the strip that has laundry facilities. The restaurants and snack bar are very well priced. Free WFi. I know you said you don't have contact with other vets or if you wish to (?) - obviously, pretty much everyone there is affiliated with military in one way or another.
I saw a few altercations at our old condo complex over can collecting. I can imagine that if that's your only source of income being pretty possessive.
Like I said, my observations of Oahu are somewhat limited. I've done nearly all the tourist things at one time or another but for the most part my days there are pretty much the same and my "travels" are limited to where the trolley goes. I know that there is lot of debate on he boards here about hostility from the locals vs. "aloha". I can't really think of a time when I felt truly afraid or was poorly treated by locals but I do feel more aware of my "otherness" in Hawaii than I did/do in say Japan or Thailand.
You and the 500 people before you just today have this idea.
The vast majority of those people aren't disabled vets and can't afford to attempt what I'm about to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by norman_w
Where are you going to find an empty storage unit?
Storage units near Waikiki run from $70 - $250 and up. There are multiple storage facilities in the area and many (all that I've checked, actually) have some available. They're expensive but they're not completely sold out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakeneko
The Hale Koa is actually pretty decent. It's one of the few hotels on the strip that has laundry facilities. The restaurants and snack bar are very well priced. Free WFi. I know you said you don't have contact with other vets or if you wish to (?) - obviously, pretty much everyone there is affiliated with military in one way or another.
I looked into it, it's a great deal but it's limited to one registration every 90 days. That registration can be for up to 30 days, though. So I won't end up staying, but the PX might come in very handy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarfishKey
I hope people looking to solve their problems through becoming a beach bum/hobo will see this and think twice. It leads to MORE isolation, MORE trauma, more pain. You get to a point where you forget how to live indoors, or in society. But the pain hasn't really gone away. Becoming a wanderer is just a diversion from the issues that are still there, not getting resolved. The OP is struggling with issues that are not easy to resolve. But willingly going into this life before you have gotten that far, is likely to lead you down a path that at a certain point is very hard to turn back. If you know of any way to reach out through a person you can trust, do it. Before you reach a point where you trust no one in life anymore.
You're right in some ways, but I think you're maybe projecting or something. You're accurately describing a lot of homeless, but I don't think I'm one of them.
I was raised in the deep south and we were outside all day, every day. Most of the night, sometimes, too. It was just all there was to do. It cost money to run the air conditioner all day so we just stayed outside and did rednecky things. Had a garden, rode four wheelers, built fires at night, sat around and listened to the radio and just existed. I think that's what I'm trying to get back to. Being homeless in Chico was in all ways miserable. There was absolutely nothing about it that was pleasant or that would tempt me to go back out there, or I would have been out there the past six years. I don't romanticize it. I'm sure if I had been a gutter punk and had friends and been accepted socially somewhat, or been going to bars and parties, I'd have some fond memories. As it is I just have a collection of stories that start with someone dying and end with someone getting raped. There's nothing about living outside here that would tempt me to willingly give up living inside. If it weren't for them renovating this apartment I wouldn't be leaving now.
The underbelly of society is its own thing. Drunks, people who live outside so they can drink or do drugs, that's not where I'm coming from or where I'm going to. That's what I think you're referring to, belonging to some tribal group of homeless drop outs who reject society on some level. I don't reject society, I'm just not really what society wants. Society doesn't want honest people, for example. It says it does, but everyone will also tell you at the same time that if you try to be too honest you're going to irritate and annoy people constantly. No one wants to be ratted on for something innocuous like running a stoplight, for example, although the same people will usually tell you at any other time that following the law is very important to them. Someone once said "the truth will set you free" and quite frankly I don't think they knew what they were talking about. The truth will anger someone powerful and get you locked up. The truth will get you on the bad side of some corporate interest. The truth will make people hate you for political reasons.
Go tell too much truth about your local police department and see how free you're set, lol.
There's all this fakeness built up and piled on top of life. This Hawaii trip is emblematic of it. The rich want their way, so everyone will cowtow to it no matter how good or bad it makes things. Beaches close at night? Nice. Let's close mother nature. Let's wall off nature and say "you can't experience it at night". I know why it's done. It's done to prevent the drunken losers, the methheads, the drop outs and dead beats from congregating at the beach. The end result is that locals and tourists who want to go to the beach at 2am are out of luck (or ticketed).
I'm not going to Hawaii because I'm addicted to living outside. I'm going because I can't take living in here like this, alone. The months go by and nothing changes. Time stretches out, nervous breakdowns are had, 10 feet in most directions from me there are people living their lives, yet I sit here forever haunted by my mind with no comfort and no direction home. Was today the first of the month? Does it matter? Oh, right, bills. The phone rang? Never anyone looking for me. Always some wrong number. How many years am I expected to sit here like this? I think the six I've done this time, and the six that lead up to 2009, are twelve too many. That's 4320 days, and every one of those days I either cried over the loss or fought back thoughts that would leave me in tears. Marines aren't supposed to talk about crying, though, and we're not supposed to talk about being abused domestically. The big mean angry man isn't supposed to be someones punching bag, that doesn't fit the narrative. Reality often doesn't fit the narrative.
When I started this thread 6 years ago I cared very much how my presence would be interpreted, and it was a combination of things that led me to try California instead, but the palpable feeling of unwelcome from Hawaiians who I believe are mostly not actually of Hawaiian blood was a strong contributor to me not visiting there first. Now it doesn't matter. Nowhere do I go that I belong. I am always an outsider. That has nothing to do with being homeless, or even poor (technically I think I'm lower middle class). It has everything to do with a lifetime of abuse that was never resolved, of a lack of therapy and care, a lack of love or support.
Look, I'm 100% mentally disabled, right? That's a legal thing that was bestowed upon me. You'd think that means people would recognize I'd have some difficulty caring for myself, right? Wrong. The VA doesn't interpret it that way. So I'm 100% mentally disabled yet completely independent in all ways other than financially. The doctors won't help me. I asked for PTSD therapy and they said no because "I would disturb the other veterans".
So everyone else gets therapy but not me because I'm too messed up. It's like the plot to a bad comedy. My life is more surreal than a crap-tier movie. If society treated you like that, would you give a **** that they didn't want you on their beaches? Because I don't care anymore. In 2009 I did. I don't now. If I don't have the freedom to lay down on a beach, what freedom do I have? I can't die, that's illegal. Can't sleep at the beach, that's illegal. Can't even sit down in Honolulu, that's illegal.
And I'm supposed to respect that, while I simultaneously respect the federal govt telling me I'm too unstable to be treated.
Yeah, no, not going to. I'm not drunk, not a druggie, not a drop out loser. I love nature and was raised in it. I don't understand you everyone-must-live-in-a-house people. I really don't. But I'm too depressed right now to go live on a river somewhere in the south. If I weren't so depressed I'd go get a drivers license and just live out of a van or RV and no one would even know. I'd go white water rafting all summer, snow ski all winter, and there'd be nothing for people to complain about. But I'm still busy kicking my *** emotionally for losing my kids, and I don't think I'm ever going to stop punishing myself for that, so no, I don't care if people find my presence in Hawaii unattractive. They can scream at me but I'll just look at them blankly, nothing anyone screams at me can bother me half as deeply as listening to my child have an IV inserted and not being able to help her did.
You ever had to tell your kid they were going to die? I have. I did it, too, God help my soul.
It's kind of a joke, really. You take someone who's stressed, crazy, falling apart, and tell him "Hey, that's fine, whatever, we don't really care, what's important is that you don't disturb our view and our nice day. Also you smell bad".
Quite honestly I'd be surprised if I said that to someone who was begging for emotional support and they gave any response that wasn't violent, but most people these days have been whipped into compliance so maybe that's the norm now.
*edit*
As I said before, the only practical advice any of my VA psychs have ever given me was one who said "All my patients like you live up in the mountains", the implication being that not only were there a lot of guys like me out here, but the best anyone could tell them is to go outside somewhere remote where their PTSD attacks wouldn't scare people or get anyone killed. Psychs don't advertise this fact, though. You're not going to hear them say it in a press release. Privately, they'll tell you the truth. Publicly they lie because feels are more important than reals.
There is no cut and dry answer for people like me. We're not supposed to exist, and on paper we don't. The military certainly isn't going to go bragging about it anymore than they'd go bragging about the stupendously high rate of veteran suicide, and neither is any other section of the US govt. If you have a mental illness, and you don't respond to medication, and they refuse to give you therapy, what are you supposed to do?
What am I supposed to do.
They can arrest me, or send me to a psych ward, they can give me a bunch of pills, they can toss me in some public-funded govt therapy program that exists primarily so that everyone running it gets paid and the state gets to claim they are "doing something", and when I get out they'll open the door, it'll close behind me, and that will be that. I'll just be standing somewhere downtown. It's not like I'd have an address to get a ride to, and I make too much money to qualify for any sort of public assistance. If I sit down on the curb right there, nothing will happen until the police stop by, many hours later, to arrest me for trespassing, at which time the process starts all over. It is a revolving door. "Fixing" people is not the goal because that's way too broad for any one govt office. The idea is for every department to give you what you need and then send you to the next department, and in the end you're somewhere that you are supported and stable and getting back on your feet. Instead it's everyone's job to simply put a metaphorical band-aid on you and push you to the next part of the process without regard to an end point or whether you're even responding to the treatment. Your overall well-being is not important because there's no one person responsible for it. The state getting to say they're dealing with the problem is what matters, because politics, and the buck stops nowhere.
There is a false notion in the US (world wide, maybe) that if you are "crazy" they can dose you up on drugs and fix you, so if you're not medicated you're obviously not taking your meds etc etc etc. I mean, in my case, I don't even have meds. Nothing "fixes" kids dying so they can't really treat it, and I don't want to feel better about it, you know? I don't want a pill that makes me go "Hey, my kids dying, everything's fine! I'm smiling!".
That would be crazier than being sad over it, wouldn't it?
*second edit*
At some point this thread stopped being about "can I pull this off" and turned into "is it a good idea to try this".
I know it's a bad idea. It's a horribly bad idea. If I had any sort of comfort that I cared about, or a hobby, or decent friends, or anything else that gave me any sort of satisfaction in life, I wouldn't have ever considered doing it.
This isn't about being happy, or having a nice vacation. It's about getting to stare at the waves and feeling distracted from the things that haunt my memories, and having the sound of the waves cover the tinnitus I picked up in the military. For an average person, staring at the ocean all day would not be a satisfying life. For me it's better than staring at this computer screen.
Everything else is irrelevant to me. When I made the thread I didn't know what the culture would be. I naively hoped I'd be somewhat welcome.
Of course that was too idealistic. Of course it was. Of course I should be more cynical. I've learned a great deal in the years since I first came here.
If you asked me why I was doing this, I wouldn't have an answer. I really don't know. All I can say is that I'm compelled to do it, in the same way that I was compelled to move to Tampa and then to Chico.
Maybe Hawaii will be bad for the same reasons Florida was. Florida was crap because everyone was armed and hyper-aggressive. If Hawaii is that way, I won't stay. But everything I've heard is that "it's slower paced" and "people are laid back, ditch the suit and tie" and that sounds perfect. A real beach-bummy type of place. But if you say "I want to be a beach bum" people flip out like you announced you're going to start dumping your car motor oil in their swimming pool. I really don't get it. I get the strong feeling, though, that the people who spaz out about it are the same people who are refusing to ditch their suit and tie lifestyle.
I did some research into knife laws. In Hawaii switchblades, butterfly knives, dirks and daggers (as well as anything else designed specifically to be a weapon) are illegal to carry, but they are the only classes of knife that are illegal to carry. I looked up what a dirk is, and it's "a type of long thrusting dagger" and a dagger is "narrow-bladed, double-edged knife with a central spine designed primarily for stabbing". Very specific. I've seen conflicting reports of disguised and hidden-type blades being legal or illegal to carry, but when it comes to single bladed knives with multiple uses, the law seems very clear:
Quote:
§ 134-51. Deadly weapons; prohibitions; penalty.
(a) Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person’s self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with any dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous weapon shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and may be immediately arrested without warrant by any sheriff, police officer, or other officer or person. Any weapon, above enumerated, upon conviction of the one carrying or possessing it under this section, shall be summarily destroyed by the chief of police or sheriff.
(b) Whoever knowingly possesses or intentionally uses or threatens to use a deadly or dangerous weapon while engaged in the commission of a crime shall be guilty of a class C felony.
Quote:
The case of State vs. Giltner in 1975 defined “deadly or dangerous weapon” as “an instrument designed primarily as a weapon, or one which has been diverted from its normal use and prepared and modified for combat purposes.” In this case, a police officer found Giltner with a deep-sea dive knife who’s blade was 6.5 inches and arrested Giltner for carrying a deadly weapon. It was later decided that a deep-sea dive knife is not a deadly weapon.
The case State vs. Muliufi in 1982 further expanded upon the definition of “deadly or dangerous weapon” with “an instrument closely associated with criminal activity whose sole design and purpose is to inflict bodily injury or death upon another human being or is designed primarily as a weapon, or one which has been diverted from its normal use and prepared and modified for combat purposes.” In this case, the court ruled that nunchaku sticks are not deadly weapons since they are used as training tools in the martial arts.
On top of this, the Judge’s opinion in State vs. Rackle in 1974 found that “a knife should not be considered a “deadly or dangerous weapon'” just because it is a knife. The manner in which it is used must be taken into account. The Judge also stated that, when “words of general description follow the enumeration of certain things, those words are restricted in their meaning to objects of like kind and character with those specified.” Therefore, if a knife does not fit within the dirk or dagger category, it can not be automatically classified as a dangerous weapon.
Because of these three cases, you can conceal carry any knife you wish as long as it is not a dirk or dagger or something similar to that. If the knife you conceal carry is something like a tactical knife or Bowie knife, it is not a dangerous weapon unless you use it in a way that makes it a dangerous weapon. For example, holding a Bowie knife at someone’s neck would make it a dangerous weapon.
There is no blade length limit on carrying any legal type of knife. That's pretty significant. A Ka-Bar is single bladed. So is a Bowie knife or a machete. A Bowie knife is a serious piece of gear, a machete can chop through a small tree, used defensively it can be horribly devastating.
For reference, this is a bowie knife:
It looks double bladed, but the top edge is a false edge called a clip-point, which isn't good for stabbing as it weakens the tip of the blade. A Bowie knife is pretty much the North American cowboy version of a shortsword, but more utilitarian. As far as I can tell, it's legal because the way its blade curves means it's used primarily for cutting, not stabbing, same with the machete and Ka-Bar.
If I'm understanding the law correctly (and I plan to double check with state law enforcement first), a Ka-Bar, a Bowie knife, or a machete are all completely legal to carry in Hawaii either openly or concealed without requiring any permits. That's state-wide, including Honolulu, although other local ordinances may apply.
Even if I'm wrong about these large single blade knives being carry-legal, the law seems to be very clear that you could have any sized pocket knife, and those get quite large, and carry it openly or concealed and be fine. A small camp axe or hatchet similarly should be fine. Heck, go to your local gardening store and just look at the tools. There's quite a few things that no one sane would try to fight you if you were wearing. A garden kama, for example:
It's for cutting grass. Handy, eh?
Or just pop into your kitchen and grab a butchers knife. It's made to cut meat, not stab, and is totally legal to carry around in Hawaii.
Never know when you might want to chop up some pork cutlets while away from home (might want to invest in a good sheathe though).
I get the feeling the people posting here about being assaulted at the beach weren't open carrying a knife when they went on their solo adventures. Of course, a knife fight isn't really something the average tourist is going to want to admit they may have to face, and the only reason it's legal to carry is because it's primarily meant to be a tool. I'm not advocating carrying a knife as a weapon, as that would be illegal. However, if simply carrying it exposed is enough to dissuade an attack, then it's a pretty useful tool.
The only downside is that if a cop wants to ruin your day and arrest you just to make you challenge it in court, they can. They can do that about almost anything, though, at any time, so I don't think that's a significant issue. I'm not suggesting you do this in the middle of downtown Waikiki. Out in the boondocks or some remote beach where no one's around to hear you scream, it might not be such a bad idea to take the proper tools for any situation with you.
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