Questions about Hawaii - Want to start an organic farm (Hilo: for sale, leases)

[TheYogi]

My partner and I are interested in moving to Hawaii in mid march. We want to purchase some land and operate a SMALL farm utilizing permaculture methodologies. We don't want to operate for profit, but more to bring healthy, cheap (or free) food to locals. We may even open the land up to community gardening

1. What islands have somewhat affordable land in the $20,000/acre or less range? And where on those islands should I look?
2. We also teach yoga and acro yoga. Land somewhat close to population centers for that reason would be nice.
3. I keep reading about "VOG". What is that?
4. Are there any laws against free range chickens on your land?
5. We don't want to live in the dry area of hawaii, we want the wetter areas. Which areas are wetter and which are dryer?
6. I hear part of hawaii has pristine air quality and part is really bad. Which areas are good and bad?

Thank you kindly.

[SurfinUSA]

VOG is volcanic air pollution here on the islands. It isn't like big city air pollution (dark clouds and all of that) but it definitely creates a "fog" type feel.

As far as the rest of the questions, hopefully someone else will be able to help you. I'm not sure on which islands have the cheapest land, or the free-range chicken laws.

[TexasCasey]

Hey there Yogi,

I also, cannot answer most of these questions, as I am just planning my move to Hawaii...but just hang out for a bit, these guys will have lots of answers, soon.

The one thing that I thought I would throw out at ya is this... During my research, a few days ago, I stumbled into a Yoga/Palaties studio for sale, somewhere, I believe on Maui. Didn't know if this would mean anything to you, it didn't to me. But it sounded like an established studio, with staff in place & I would guess that a quick search could probably steer you there, if it does mean anything to you.

Good luck with your move & the farm.

[leilaniguy]

The Big Island of Hawaii is the only island where land is that cheap, and only in Puna and Kau districts. Kau is drier, Puna very wet, closer to civilization. Both places get Vog, depending on wind conditions. It is much more common in Kau. The land is rocky & there is very little rich soil in either place, but it can be built up. Some subdivisions prohibit livestock, most with acre lots allow it.

[hotzcatz]

Originally Posted by TheYogi

My partner and I are interested in moving to Hawaii in mid march. We want to purchase some land and operate a SMALL farm utilizing permaculture methodologies. We don't want to operate for profit, but more to bring healthy, cheap (or free) food to locals. We may even open the land up to community gardening

Permaculture is sort of a standard method for gardening around here. There is too much work in the mainland way so most folks have plants that pretty much stay put and don't need much tending but produce edible stuff. Bananas, papaya, ferns, lilikoi, indeterminate cherry tomato patches, avocado, lychee, etc. There is generally some mainland style vegetable gardening for lettuce, onions, carrots, etc.

Originally Posted by TheYogi

1. What islands have somewhat affordable land in the $20,000/acre or less range? And where on those islands should I look?

You could look at the Puna or Kau district of the Island of Hawaii or perhaps Molokai. You aren't likely to find all the things you are looking for at less than $20K, though.

Originally Posted by TheYogi

2. We also teach yoga and acro yoga. Land somewhat close to population centers for that reason would be nice.

Double or triple the price you are willing to pay.

Originally Posted by TheYogi

3. I keep reading about "VOG". What is that?

Volcanic smog, heavy in sulfuric fumes. Sometimes to the extent of killing plants. It is difficult to breathe when there is vog in the air. Most of it starts at the volcano vents (Halemaumau crater & Kiluea iki) and heads towards the Ka'u and Kona districts but depending on the wind, it goes the other way towards Hilo and the Hamakua side, too. Everyplace gets it occasionally, except perhaps Kauai.

Originally Posted by TheYogi

4. Are there any laws against free range chickens on your land?

No statewide ban and each island is a county and there is no county wide ban. There are, however, CCRs (Conditions, Covenants and Restrictions I think that means) in some sub-divisions. Most of the land that will be priced within your means will most likely be part of one of the big subs made in the sixties and seventies in the Puna and Ka'u district.

Originally Posted by TheYogi

5. We don't want to live in the dry area of hawaii, we want the wetter areas. Which areas are wetter and which are dryer?

If it is green, it is wetter. Some towns, such as Waimea have a dry side and a wet side. Most of Puna is wetter than Kona, some parts of Ka'u are wet, some parts are very dry, it is specific to the area you are looking at and each climate area can be less than several miles wide.

Originally Posted by TheYogi

6. I hear part of hawaii has pristine air quality and part is really bad. Which areas are good and bad?

Depends on which way the wind is blowing and how Pele is feeling that day. She is a volcano goddess and can put vog where ever she wants to.

When looking for land in Hawaii, one of the first questions is "Leasehold" or "Fee Simple"? Leasehold means you lease the land, usually in fifty year leases and when you buy it you buy what's left of the previous lease, not start a new fifty year term. Fee Simple means you own the land outright, at least unless someone of direct descent from the original grant holder from King Kamehameha comes up and contests the title. Those grants were not able to be sold for longer than the life of the seller. When the seller dies then the grants default back to the direct blood heirs of the original grant holder. It doesn't happen often, but I have heard there have been several cases of land changing hands because the heirs have come back in the past decade or so.

Another consideration when looking for land is to see what lava zone it is in. Some of the cheaper land is either in the direct path of the lava flow, has been covered in lava lately or may be covered soon.

Some land has soil, some only has cinders. Things will grow in cinders but you usually have to break them up or grow things in crevices. Which is another reason why mainland gardening styles aren't very prevalent here. Tractors and tillers don't work in pahoehoe lava. They don't work too well in a'a lava, either.

When these big subdivisions were made in the sixties and seventies, it was in writing with Hawaii County that the County would NOT be responsible for roads, water or any other services to these areas. Basically, the "developers" made a map, had someone blaze a trail through the brush, jungle or whatever the terrain was and set railroad spikes or pipes at the corner of each lot. They generally ran a bulldozer along the roadway but no gravel, blacktop or other road improvements. These are long skinny lots so they wouldn't have to bulldoze as much. No power, no water, no parks, no shopping centers, no facilities of any type, no nothing. These lots were sold to mainland folks who either didn't care or were clueless. Now, almost forty years later, folks have been building and working on the roads so most of the subs have passable roads some are even paved but the community has to do it themselves. No water service, but most areas have power available and with cell phones many of them have phone service. Still no parks, shopping centers or other reasons for the sub-divisions to exist such as nearby employment.

So, with the price range you mentioned and the request for wet, the subs between Hilo and Volcano or over towards Puna would probably be a place to start looking. Fern Acres, Fern Forest and Hawaiian Acres are between Kea'au and Volcano. Leilani, Paradise Park and Orchidland are between Kea'au and Pahoa.

[whynot?]

I was waiting for the wisdom of "hotzcatz" on this, but I have to say I thought of Molokai, too. Won't do for yoga instruction, though. Not in any kind of numbers, I'd say. I recently met the farm manager from Puu O Hoku Ranch there, who's working on establishing an organic vegetable farm there. And I've visited several Maui organic farms -- some highly specialized and some with an array of products. They're all in pretty pricey areas, though.

In keeping with some of the community interests of "The Yogi," Maui also has the Maui Farm, a non-profit (former foster care) facility that helps homeless families get stablilized by learning some self-sufficiency and care via farming. The Maui Farm - Mauinews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Visitor's Information - The Maui News Perhaps there are other ways to achieve some of the OP's humanitarian goals and still be located near a town that would support the yoga practice?

When "TheYogi" comes back, would you mind telling us how many acres you're thinking about at $20K/?

Best of luck.

[leilaniguy]

I just ran a quick check of the Hawaii MLS. There are currently 115 1 acre properties in Kau under $20K, starting at $7,500 all in Oceanview. There are 21 parcels in Puna, 1 and 3 acre lots in Eden Roc and Fernforest, starting at $12,000. The cheapest listing on Molokai is $199,000.

[whynot?]

Yeah, I looked at the Molokai listings last night, too. Everything there is so "casual," though, that there's often property that's not formally listed. I'm having a hard time completely understanding how much farming (and dwelling and possibly yoga instruction) can be done on a single acre, though. I was assuming that the OP was perhaps looking for a larger parcel at his $20K/acre price. All will be revealed in time, I guess.

Or not.

[leilaniguy]

Originally Posted by whynot?

Yeah, I looked at the Molokai listings last night, too. Everything there is so "casual," though, that there's often property that's not formally listed. I'm having a hard time completely understanding how much farming (and dwelling and possibly yoga instruction) can be done on a single acre, though. I was assuming that the OP was perhaps looking for a larger parcel at his $20K/acre price. All will be revealed in time, I guess.

Or not.

True. Here in Puna I've occasionally heard of land being swapped for autos or other goods or sold real cheap for fast cash, (bail money?) There are some 1 acre farms around, growing lettuce, laulau ti, vanilla, exotics like pitcher plants, etc. but i don't know if it would account for 100% of income. Of course there are those illegal crops that can be grown on tiny lots.

[cynmkolohe]

The Big Island subdivisions that come to mind (plenty rain and no CC&Rs preventing chickens) in or near that price range are:

Hawaiian Paradise Park-mostly one acre lots (but current stats show only a couple of sales below 30K this year)
Orchid Land Estates-mostly 3 acre lots, some 2 acres
Hawaiian Acres-mostly 3 acre lots
Eden Roc-one acre lots
Fern Forest-mostly 3 acre lots
Fern Acres-mostly 2 acre lots

There are a lot of "yoga-minded" people in the Puna area, but do your research as there are a lot of yoga teachers as well.

All of these areas will experience some VOG from time to time, depending on the trade winds and the level of emissions from the vents.