can we live on $135,000 on Oahu (Hilo, Pahoa: how much, townhouse, landlord)

[fatoldman]

haha, nuclear physicist, far from it. But I'm not a Fed employee. Totally civilian as in 3rd party contractor to government. Since I already told the kids about it I pretty much have to move there regardless or suffer their wrath. I agree it'll take some, maybe a lot, of adjustment and prioritization of expenditures. I know we won't get rich, much less save money. But we'll have great experience together. Who knows, maybe we'll use this opportunity as a springboard to go somewhere else for a couple years like Australia, and then somewhere else, and so on and so on. Not a bad way to see the world!! But I'll start with Oahu and see how that goes. And I definitely will be checking int and posting more threads. I'm not out of the woods yet. Hell, I don't have a place to live yet much less know how to get to work :-).

[Bandalero]

Yeah-boy! I like the way you think (i.e., the stepping-stone approach, etc.)! That's the way to look at life as long as it doesn't cost innocent others too much in the process (e.g., wives and their careers, kids and their schooling or friends, etc.). That's the problem I've had. I've been back and forth to Hawaii (and the Mainland) many times over the years, but this most recent trip back cost a number of people in my life (both friends and family) a great deal, some in ways that I don't even want to think about. Hard to explain with any brevity, but suffice it to say, lives and expenses and losses can get ultra complicated at-times, especially in an economy this threatening.

Go for it, enjoy the journey, and savor the experiences you'll all have together, but above all, listen to your loved ones. Should one or more of them ever say to you that they've had enough, that they're struggling or feeling persecuted, that they feel isolated and need to go "home", believe it, and make the change. Eventually, the novelty and wonder of anything wanes, and as a husband and father, you already know that its a give and take proposition wrought with sacrifice.

All the Best!

[bigounets]

Hey Fatoldman, with that kind of salary, your should be able to live comfortably. Now I remember that you mentioned you lived on Bainbridge Island from paycheck to paycheck. If that's the case, you'd better start budgetting because your comfort level in HI will be different than the one in WA. My family and I moved a couple of years ago from Oahu to Seattle and let me tell you, it was a big change! Yes, the milk was much cheaper, but not only that, we were actually able to eat more fruits and vegetables. The said fruits and vegetables actually had a smell and even a taste...imagine that!!! After 10 years in HI I had forgotten how good a ripe strawberry could smell. Let alone taste since I barely ever bought any!!!.
Anyway, I found that gas was about the same and that although rentals were wayyyy cheaper here, most of the time you have to pay for all the utilites. In Hawaii, very often either water, sewer, and/or garbage are included in the rent. All together, I've paid higher utility bills here than in Hawaii, especially because of the heat in the winter.
Talking about rent, for $2500 a month in Hawaii you'll barely get a $1500/$1700 3 bedroom older rambler in Bellevue but without the yard. You might get lucky and have a strip of grass between your house and the neighbors'.

Now what I miss in Hawaii, is the cheap entertainment. Outdoor municipal pools opened year round, FREE for everyone, with FREE swimming lessons. Very inexpensive sports for kids. Any of your kids play baseball? I remember paying $75 to sign up my son for Little League and it included the whole uniform (socks and pants included!), you just had to get the shoes. Lots and lots and lots of hiking trails, beautiful beaches, my $25 yearly pass to the zoo for the kids and I (compare that with Woodland zoo!! Well, can't really compare both zoos, but the prices are much different). Most of museums and other attractions have a lower price for residents and you're pretty much close to everything everywhere on the island. Don't forget, it's just an island!!!! Here I don't mind spending the afternoon on Mt Rainier, while I live in Kirkland!!
Traffic on Oahu is pretty bad but proportionately with the Puget Sound it makes it about the same.

If you work on Hickham as a civilian I'm sorry to say but you won't be able to use the commisary. However, if you have very young children, make sure you take them to Kidsport. It's on base and everyday around noon you pay a buck or two (I forgot) and for an hour they can run wild in an air conditioned gym full of matted tunels, balancing beams etc... very fun!
If you can deal with the heat in your house these days without AC, you'll be fine in Hawaii without AC.
Also, Craigslist on Oahu is a gold mine. There are a lot of military families coming and going all the time and you get really good deals. So you might be able to find all the kitesurfing equipment you need. And that's without mentioning year round garage sales!

Online purchases..well, with Amazon it should be moslty OK. You need to know however that many online companies won't ship to Hawaii, period. I tried many times while I was there to order something from Target or Walmart etc...impossible. And a lot of things you can find in Walmart on the mainlaind you can't find in Hawaii, for the same reason. It mostly concerns bulky or heavy items.

All together I spent a wonderful 10 years on Oahu, moved there with my husband, and moved back to the mainland with two kids. We have a better lifestyle here and I don't miss Hawaii but I don't regret ever have experienced it.
Paradise has a cost!

I think you really should go for it, it will be a great experience for your whole family. And as I said, with that kind of money, spending it wisely, you should be very comfortable.

One more thing, working on Hickam, you might be able to find an affordable house in Kaneohe with a decent yard. Check out the northern part of Kaneohe. It will take you roughly half an hour to commute as the H3 will more or less take you straight to the base. Closer to the H3, I'm thinking about a beautiful neighborhood called Haiku Plantation where you'll find nice houses and beautiful yards. If not, more to the north in Ahuimanu or even Kahaluu (but it would be more like a 40 min drive from Kahaluu) you'll find more space between the house as those areas are more rural. Make sure your neighbors don't have roosters though, they might drive you nuts in the middle of the night!! Hehehe!

[GeorgiaTransplant]

Originally Posted by bigounets

If not, more to the north in Ahuimanu or even Kahaluu (but it would be more like a 40 min drive from Kahaluu) you'll find more space between the house as those areas are more rural. Make sure your neighbors don't have roosters though, they might drive you nuts in the middle of the night!! Hehehe!

I commuted to work, every day for 3-1/2 years, from Kahaluu to Hickam on H3. Piece of cake. H3 really changed the equation.

[bigounets]

That's the most beautiful highway especially after the rain when you see all the waterfalls. Simply gorgeous!! No traffic jams either!

[808n310]

Originally Posted by Bandalero

1) "Anyone" DIDN'T compare Oahu home prices with the Southwest. They compared the ratio of income to monthly mortgage expense. Please read the post.

2) Amazing! One of your parents must work for HECO, because the single lowest electric bill we've ever seen in seven continuous years of home ownership here was $142, and that was in the dead of winter for a paltry 1200 sq. ft. home, not the 2500 sq. ft. palace that your parents apparently own!

3) Doh! You're a master of the obvious. I think what the gentleman said was that $135K per year was the sole (total) income for an entire household of five! So what's that got to do with whether or not its "above average" income? Above average personal? Above average household? What? I'll say it again, its not "above average" for a typical two-income household here.

Sorry, was out on business for a bit, but I'm back

1) Obviously in areas where home prices are high people will pay a higher percentage of their take home income to afford it...I was just trying to shed light on the fact that there are other aspects to quality of life besides discretionary income...such as not burning alive in 116 degree heat, having some of the most beautiful beaches on Earth free and accessible to use, blah blah blah...

2) No, my parents were born and raised in Hawaii and are used to the weather. If you insist on keeping your home at 65 degrees 24/7, well the bill you get is what you deserved. They use energy sparingly, don't run the a/c much, and never set it less than 72....simple adjustments can reap significant savings.

3) No, the average "two income" household in Hawaii is FAR less than 135k. By what you say, that would place the average income in Hawaii at over 67.5k if 135k is still not 'above average' for a two income household as you state. Yeah, right. Median household income in Honolulu County as of 2006 was $63,372. In the same year average earnings per job was $40,185. And median family income for 2006 was $73,457. So, since we all know that not every family, or every household, will have a dual income, let's just double what the average job in Honolulu county makes and see what you get, oh, $80,370. I fail to see how 135k doesn't qualify as above average? And please don't bust out the everybody works two jobs bull...it's tiring. I did state the obvious, that your post was off base and that you're using your unique personal situation to blanket and skew actual demographic data. I'm sorry that I wasn't clearer in my previous post, but again, to state the obvious, 135k is a significantly above average income for a family of 5 in Honolulu.

OP, Bainbridge Island is a beautiful place...I have a friend who lives in Poulsbo so I've driven through a few times...I'm not sure what part of the island you live on but in general you def get more bang for your buck land wise, there than in HI, but of course that's pretty much valid for any comparison regarding Honolulu...best of luck.

[surfmonkey17]

I would love to know how they only pay $175 in electricity for a house that size! By comparison, I live on the Big Island in a 1-bd approximately 600 sq. ft. condo with no air conditioner and our bill usually runs $200. When we first moved here, it was around $250 a month, but we made changes to bring it down some (changed laundry from warm to cold water, no longer use the dishwasher at all, etc.). We do run the ceiling fan in the living room and I work from home so the computer is on all day, but other than basic appliances (stove, refrig., and laundry), everything else is turned off and we unplug everything not in use. I can't imagine what our bill would be if we did have the luxury of air conditioning.

[808n310]

Originally Posted by surfmonkey17

I would love to know how they only pay $175 in electricity for a house that size! By comparison, I live on the Big Island in a 1-bd approximately 600 sq. ft. condo with no air conditioner and our bill usually runs $200. When we first moved here, it was around $250 a month, but we made changes to bring it down some (changed laundry from warm to cold water, no longer use the dishwasher at all, etc.). We do run the ceiling fan in the living room and I work from home so the computer is on all day, but other than basic appliances (stove, refrig., and laundry), everything else is turned off and we unplug everything not in use. I can't imagine what our bill would be if we did have the luxury of air conditioning.

I seriously have no clue how y'all are getting bills like these?! I own two condos in Hawaii, and lived in each for a little over a year, one was a small 1br, about 650 sf, central air but I never used it, and I'd pay about $50 bucks a month, keep in mind that was just me, and I barely cooked a thing. 2nd one was a 2/2 townhouse out in mauka that had window a/cs in every room, which I barely ever used, that one ran me about $70 bucks a month. And I moved away back in 06, so those prices aren't super out of date...

Oh, one big thing of note, both myself and my parents, and a ton of people I know, NEVER, ever run the dishwasher....could that make that big of a difference??? For me b/c I never cook, and my parents are lazy and paper plate EVERYTHING...so they only sink wash cups lol.

Dang maybe I'm the one super off base about the electricity??! If so sorry!

[mdand3boys]

Originally Posted by surfmonkey17

I would love to know how they only pay $175 in electricity for a house that size! By comparison, I live on the Big Island in a 1-bd approximately 600 sq. ft. condo with no air conditioner and our bill usually runs $200. When we first moved here, it was around $250 a month, but we made changes to bring it down some (changed laundry from warm to cold water, no longer use the dishwasher at all, etc.). We do run the ceiling fan in the living room and I work from home so the computer is on all day, but other than basic appliances (stove, refrig., and laundry), everything else is turned off and we unplug everything not in use. I can't imagine what our bill would be if we did have the luxury of air conditioning.

Uh... You are in Kona, which is HOT!
Hilo is the COOL SIDE!

[BolanSixx]

Originally Posted by 808n310

1: I don't understand why anyone would compare Oahu home prices to the Southwest? It's a completely apples to oranges comparison and saying that house X in Hawaii would be worth 1/6 as much in Phoenix is a pretty moot point... it was also 116 degrees in Phoenix two weeks ago, I was there, and stuck at the airport for four hours b/c the plane can't leave when the temps get that high.... I'm sure things of that nature contribute a lot to the 'value' that you get out there....

2: OK, so the people in Waianae that you know need to either buy new energy efficient A/Cs, check their seals, not keep it 60 degrees 24/7, or all of the above. Taking the absolute worst case scenario and passing it off as the norm is misleading and not helpful. My parents, in a 2500 square foot house with central air run about $175.00 a month in elec. Their 8000sf yard which my dad brags is 'like carpet' b/c he's super anal about it and waters it like crazy, probably pushes their water up quite a bit but it's still only about $180.00 every other month. Time Warner does HD cable, road runner and digital phone for about $120.00 a month, a cell phone family plan will run about $100.00, $150.00 if you've got blackberrys. Just because it's Hawaii doesn't mean that things like cable, phone, cells, internet etc are going to be exponetially greater. A 6 pack of underwear at Wal-Mart isn't $50.00 more than on the mainland because it's Hawaii.

3. Regardless of the hype, 135k gross, 90k net, is an above average income in Hawaii, period. The question is, will this support a similar quality of life that you're coming from. If you're making less now, and the increase in pay is commensurate with the increase in cost of living in Hawaii, than you'll be fine. If you're making more now, and taking a pay cut, and I believe you said you were coming from SEA, which overall housing is less expensive (unless you're say on Mercer Island, Queen Anne etc), than you may have to really, really think hard about the move. If it makes any sense, I feel quite a bit poorer in LA w/ more income, than I did in Hawaii, so it is a two way street.

I do agree that a lot of people who are struggling in Hawaii will not, or would not consider moving due to family and cultural reasons.

Good luck!

Im sorry, but, i have to disagree with your assessment of cost here in hawaii. Time Warners triple deal comes out to $170 a month. cell phone plans (family of 4) runs almost $190.

Things here are alot more expensive. And, the cost keeps rising. The other day, we were excited cause supreme gas was at $3.26. EXCITED.

Oh, and electric? Yeah. We have a 2br condo, and pay almost $200 a month if we run the a/c more than 3-4 hours, $140 if we dont run anything. Except fans.