Seriously want to move to Hawaii (Hana: for rent, condo, credit)

[Bandalero]

Originally Posted by MWCar

I understand your Anger and disgusts towards the hospital and I would no doubt feel the same way if my son died.

Thank you very much for the kind words, and I wish you the very best, wherever it is that you now call 'home', but I'll add that "anger" or "disgust" (as you've called them) are probably not the best terms to describe what I feel. "Hurt" would be a better word. Pain and hurt, over the senselessness of it, the senselessness of 95% of what takes place out here, all in the name of insecurity, provincialism, territoriality and adolescent protectionism. There's no need for any of it.

One of my sons was here in Hawaii some years back, studying and testing for the local fire department, and while he did so, he worked full-time (days) at a local lumber yard. On his breaks including lunch, he'd study in the employee break room, and some of the locals (his same age) would stop by and say to him . . . "Braddah, I wish I could be a fireman, I wish I could apply." He'd look at them and say the obvious . . . "why don't you, why can't you? Its not brain surgery!" Stop sleeping all day, stop drinking the cases of Heineken all night and smokin' crystal meth all day, stop having nine children, stop wasting your life and IMPROVE YOUR SITUATION! Good Lord! You'd think he was talkin' to a wall!

Anger? No. Disgust? Maybe. Disappointment, frustration, helplessness? Big-time!

All the Best

[mogon]

Originally Posted by mdand3boys

No air conditioning needed on East side (Hilo area) of Big Island.

That really depends. In the summer, as long as the trades are blowing it's pleasant even when warm. When the kona winds blow, it's also pleasant -- except for the increase in vog that is palpable.

But when the wind stop and the humidity is high-- like it has right now in lower Hamakua; there's not a leaf stirring -- it's miserable and a/c would be nice to cool down and wring out things.

And we're coming up on the hottest two months of the year.

[Pretzel Logic]

Originally Posted by Bandalero

However, I submit that the flaw in your comparative assessment here is your focus on Maui (rather than Oahu) as being representative of Hawaii at-large. Its not.

Fair enough. I've never lived on Oahu, so I'm not qualified to have an opinion on it. Just a suggestion, though: for the sake of others who may be reading and taking your words to heart, I would suggest some "disclaimer" to clarify that your statements are being made in regards to Oahu only. When I read your original post, I took the statements regarding Hawaii to mean ALL OF Hawaii. Perhaps that was some error in comprehension on my part.

Either way, I respect your candor.

So, in summary, I respectfully submit that when someone wants to conduct a legitimate (meaningful) comparison of classism or racial discrimination on the U.S. Mainland with that present here in Hawaii, they need to focus on the real cauldron (i.e., the population center of Oahu).

As you yourself said, though, Hawaii is many different things. i.e.- "Oahu doth not Hawaii make." Otherwise, why would your friends bother relocating to Maui? It's much like someone saying, "I would suggest never living anywhere in Pennsylvania because of the crime rate in Philly." Obviously, to someone like myself who settles on (or is looking to settle on) another island, Oahu and the attitudes expressed there are largely irrelevant.

So, again, I would respectfully caution that stating "Hawaii is X, Y, Z" means something different to most people than stating, "Oahu is X, Y, Z." I realize I'm picking semantics here -- but the semantic use of Oahu as being representative of the entire state when you yourself agree that it is not representative, is confusing.

[Pretzel Logic]

Originally Posted by Bandalero

Anger? No. Disgust? Maybe. Disappointment, frustration, helplessness? Big-time!

Let me also add that I think I understand where you're coming from with your posts. It's hard to see something you love be trampled down (in any sense of the term) by anyone, be it bad residents, bad government, you name it. I have felt a similar frustration regarding the destruction of our nation itself by our own government, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

[Pretzel Logic]

My two cents for anyone considering making a move here would be as follows: Realize that our perception of almost everything in life follows a similar progression, much like a serious romantic relationship.

Stage 1: We meet a new person whom we like immensely, and we initially perceive his or her desirable traits almost exclusively. This happens not only because the other person is putting their best foot forward -- but also because we tend to fill in the "blanks" (the things we don't yet know about them) with our hopes and dreams. We largely do this without realizing it.

Liken this relationship stage to your vacation experience on Hawaii -- you see all the best of everything, and you "imagine" living a life here that involves similar types of feelings/experiences. People seldom daydream about taking out the trash and doing dishes (the realities).

Stage 2: You get to know the person better, things are still good, so you decide to get married and buy a house together. At this stage, things are still new and exciting! You're learning about the other person, and they're learning about you! You're spending lots of time together -- he still brings you flowers, and she still rubs your feet. Life is good, but you're starting to pick up on a few annoying traits that you never saw while you were dating. Who knew he'd watch football for the whole day on Sunday? And doesn't she ever get tired of yapping on the phone to her mother, who calls roughly 49 million times every single day??? But it doesn't bother you THAT much, and you let it slide, because after all, You're In Love! This is also known as the "honeymoon" stage, and it generally lasts roughly a year.

Liken this to when you first move here. Everything is exciting and new -- although it's decidedly more stressful than it was on vacation. Now things are getting real: you have to find a place to live... and you spend many days not at the beach, but at the DMV or a similar place. The moving company STILL hasn't delivered your things (including your bed, which, as you're starting to remember it, was like sleeping on a never-ending pile of velvet-soft Rose petals while angels strummed relaxing lullibies on golden harps and servants massaged your feet), and you're tired of sleeping on the floor... but hey, You're Here and Life is Good.

Stage 3 is when reality starts to set in. He's leaving his dirty socks all over the place like it's good luck or something, and when he shaves he leaves a four-inch-thick pile of beard stubble at the bottom of the sink and then (apparently) expects YOU to clean it. And she's practically waiting at the door every night when you come home from work and she hits you with her latest "crisis" THE SECOND YOU WALK IN -- doesn't she realize you've been at work dealing with crisis after crisis all day long and you'd like 5 seconds to decompress? Experts refer to this stage thusly: "Well other experts, it looks like the honeymoon's OVER."

This stage starts after you've settled in and been here a while. This is when the romance has worn off, and the day to day grind sets in. I experienced a touch of Stage 3 myself last night, when I killed (in the dining room) a scorpion which was approximately the size of a mature zucchini. I then spent the next hour Googling "Scorpions" and "Maui" to find out how dangerous they are here (turns out, not terribly) -- but I spent 18 years living in the New Mexico desert where we routinely had scorpions showing up as if we had a sign on the front door stating "Free balloons for the scorpion kids! Bring your whole family!" and I've NEVER seen one as big as the one I killed last night (except in a pet store).

Stage 4 is the make or break stage. This is where the romance has pretty much vanished completely and been replaced by a thin (or thick) layer of resentment and contempt. Everything he does is wrong. And everything she says to you now involves a complaint about you doing something wrong. You *almost* hate each other... but deep down there's still some part of you that remembers the good times and believes those times will return. But it's hard to believe that when she's yelling at you about some (in your eyes) meaningless thing, like your dirty socks -- so what if you left them on the toaster? -- and the kids are in the other room screaming at each other and fighting over whether they're going to watch Sponge Bob or Pokemon, and you haven't had a romantic dinner alone with this person (what's she on about now with the beard stubble? do the complaints never end?) in God knows how long.

This is the stage when you've been anywhere for a reasonable length of time. The mystery and romance has worn off, because it's not new anymore, and it's definitely not mysterious. That "charming" old building up the street is no longer charming, it's just a crappy property that needs maintenance and a new paint-job, and you wonder how anyone who owns a property that's worth seven-figures can have absolutely ZERO pride of ownership. The geckos, which seemed cute at first, are quite literally driving you up the wall because they poop EVERYWHERE, including on the walls and ceiling. There's sand in everything and you hate it. You're fairly convinced that yesterday you found sand in a SEALED bag of potato chips.

Many people get divorced at this stage, be it from their partner or from their place of residence. It's a shame, because the real payoff is just around the corner.

Stage 5 is when you finally realize that YOU need to change. You need to make adjustments in your behaviors, and you need to make adjustments to the way you look at life in general. You need to accept the other person and adapt to them. In other words: you need to grow up. A wise man (my father) once said, "People only change when the pain of NOT changing becomes greater than the pain of changing." If you desire to love the other person enough (even if you don't currently feel that love), then the pain you experience at the mere thought of divorce motivates you to change. Hopefully, it motivates the other person to adapt to you as well.

This would be where the comparison falters just a bit, in that the place you live isn't going to change for you. But there is great merit in adaptation, and in learning to love, accept, and appreciate what you have. It doesn't mean that you have to stop working to improve something, it just means that you work from a position of acceptance and love (real love, meaning wanting the best for someone or something without thought of personal gain or gratification). There is also value in focusing on the positive with your perception (after all, that's what you did on your first vacation, remember?). We can't always choose the cards we're dealt, but we can always choose how we play them.

So in summation, I would say that if you're moving here (or anywhere), be prepared to go through these stages. Don't be surprised when "paradise" turns into a (perceived) never-ending problem -- in fact, expect it to happen at some point. If you move with a realistic attitude, with the realization that there are problems everywhere (as opposed to believing in some fairy-tale notion of the Garden of Eden), then you will not become disillusioned when reality bites. You will be prepared for it, and you will have a plan to deal with it.


All FWIW -- (This post ran a LOT longer than I originally intended!)

[Bandalero]

Originally Posted by Pretzel Logic

As you yourself said, though, Hawaii is many different things. i.e.- "Oahu doth not Hawaii make." Otherwise, why would your friends bother relocating to Maui?

Yup, and that's precisely the point I was trying to make for everyone (i.e., that Oahu is indeed "distinctly" different from the rest of Hawaii, almost to the point of being an altogether different planet from outer island). And that this was precisely why many folks HAVE moved away from Oahu.

Having traveled extensively in my work to virtually all outer islands dating back to 1987, I understand and appreciate the differences, so I'll often tell friends who are planning a visit to Hawaii the very same thing. Even if their trip involves a stop on Oahu, I try to encourage them to go and see the outer islands by telling them that seeing Waikiki (or Honolulu) is not seeing Hawaii, much like seeing Anchorage is not seeing Alaska. Sadly however, most folks still tend to limit their travels to (and thoughts of) Hawaii to the island of Oahu, and more often than not (i.e., statistically speaking), most people who relocate here from the U.S. Mainland, tend to choose Oahu over the outer islands.

But the various points you've made here (about my not having made those distinctions clear to the readers and lumping all of Hawaii together), are all well-taken, and I'll try to shape my future posts accordingly. So thanks for the observations and thanks also for your subsequent posting (immediately above) which did a fantastic job of describing (what I'll call) the Anatomy of Discontent and our own role in its eventual metastasis. The whole corollary was very nicely put.

Anyway, continued best wishes to you and good luck avoiding those monster Maui scorps! Try dip 'em in huli-huli, sashimi-style! Buggah ono!

[7th generation]

Originally Posted by loveandpeace85

Hi all!

I am a 23 year old single gal who is seriously thinking about moving to hawaii from MN. Call me crazy, but I am ready.. I know I have a lot to look at and research before I make the move. But any information you could give would be great. Information such as decent places/areas to live. How great is public transportation anything to help me make my decisions. Thanks Much!

Let's get this thread back on topic to help the OP.
Thanks

[NORMIII]

Last week 117 today 113 and humid, no ocean to jump in, just a hot pool; live in a small apartment now. Struggle a little now, “by choice of life style but could easily change" never leave my 25 mile circle. Been to Hawaii 9 times as a tourist. Loved every second of it. Single, restaurant manager most of my adult life. Love to surf cast "fish off the shore", dive, surf. Could move to San Diego but it’s not the same. The water is green not blue and often beaches are closed due to sewage. After reading all the postings I’m not sure anymore I want to move to Oahu or even Hawaii. My small dream has kind of been tainted. But if get over it what island would be least racist? What island would be best to get a job in a restaurant and why not for a couple of years or more?

[mdand3boys]

Originally Posted by NORMIII

Last week 117 today 113 and humid, no ocean to jump in, just a hot pool; live in a small apartment now. Struggle a little now, “by choice of life style but could easily change" never leave my 25 mile circle. Been to Hawaii 9 times as a tourist. Loved every second of it. Single, restaurant manager most of my adult life. Love to surf cast "fish off the shore", dive, surf. Could move to San Diego but it’s not the same. The water is green not blue and often beaches are closed due to sewage. After reading all the postings I’m not sure anymore I want to move to Oahu or even Hawaii. My small dream has kind of been tainted. But if get over it what island would be least racist? What island would be best to get a job in a restaurant and why not for a couple of years or more?

Transfer, the easiest way. If you have to, change jobs to a restaurant chain that has locations on the island you want to be on.

[Bandalero]

Originally Posted by NORMIII

Been to Hawaii 9 times as a tourist. Loved every second of it. Single, restaurant manager most of my adult life. Love to surf cast "fish off the shore", dive, surf. Could move to San Diego but it’s not the same. The water is green not blue and often beaches are closed due to sewage. After reading all the postings I’m not sure anymore I want to move to Oahu or even Hawaii. My small dream has kind of been tainted. But if get over it what island would be least racist? What island would be best to get a job in a restaurant and why not for a couple of years or more?

Based on your specified personal interests and hobbies, it sounds like life by the ocean is probably the ticket for you, and keep in mind, there are many-many livable, oceanfront cities in America (and around the world) besides Hawaii, some with far cheaper costs of living and higher average wages (excluding San Diego). However, do NOT let the 'realities' of a certain destination or place (i.e., the hardships or challenges facing you there that others including me may have shared with you), "taint" or dissuade you from your dream.

Rather, be grateful that others have paid (or are paying) the price to learn some of those lessons ahead of you, and that they took the time (and bullets) they took in articulating (or publishing) that information for others. Lets face it, Lewis and Clark had hardships and challenges, as did Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, and they knew it going-in, but they still made their respective journeys. Part of the thrill in any adventure is the uncontrollability of it all, the personal resignation to it (i.e., fate).

I can't speak for you, but for me, the important thing isn't the reticence or fear of a thing, its the thrill of surviving it or conquering it (i.e., the sheer challenge of it). Its like asking the prettiest girl in school for a date - plenty risk, but plenty of potential too! To know things going-in, is power, plain and simple. By simply reading and learning about Hawaii, and the challenges it presents for newcomers and residents alike, BEFORE jumping, you've become empowered. I trust you'll be fine.

Also, everyone is going to have their own personal views on this (and you should weigh them all), but for what its worth, my own recommendation for you with regard to the best overall island to begin such a journey is the Big Island (not Oahu, Maui or Kauai). This is based on many factors including but not limited to the following:

1) Your current "single" (un-married) status (Oahu is a short flight)
2) Your occupation (restauranteur)
3) The lesser cost of living on Big isle (fractional compared to Oahu)
4) The ethnic atmosphere on Big Isle
5) The general (slower) pace on the Big Isle
6) Etc.

Full-sail braddah!