Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Hawaii
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 11-21-2009, 03:17 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,481,325 times
Reputation: 1775

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise Calling View Post
The "don't come here, there's no jobs and we don't want you" attitude is very reminiscent of the prevailing sentiment towards immigration into the U.S. from Mexico. People have a feeling of scarcity and ownership of the land. Anything another person gains is somehow their loss.

Yes, resources are finite. This is the nature of the economy. More people does mean more competition for the same jobs and resources. It's how the world works though. People will always seek out what they perceive as a better life. It's unrealistic to think you can isolate your little patch of land from the rest of the world. Like it or not, globalization is inevitable.

It's a little more complicated when you live on an island. People come, housing gets more expensive, jobs become more rare, etc. Investors who don't live there will cause housing prices to skyrocket. Eventually what was awesome begins to suck so much it is barely bearable. Once you reach that tipping point, you get lots of new people who come, get disenchanted, and leave. Only the rich can afford to move to Hawaii and have any decent sort of life.

But what about the people who grew up there? The ones who can't leave, don't want to leave all their friends and families behind, don't have a connection anywhere else? For them, living in Hawaii is more than just an experiment. If Hawaii begins to suck, they can't run on home. They have no other home to run to. If they're not rich, they're just screwed.

An example: Oahu is one of the only places that I've ever seen where people rent and share rooms. Not houses - rooms. That's what happens when the housing prices get blown sky high. Sure, if you make a $100K a year you can move to Hawaii and live like a guy who makes $35K per year in Texas. But what about the guy who lives in Hawaii and only makes $35K per year to begin with? He ends up working 3 jobs just to survive.

All that said, you are right. It's inevitable. And to be fair, I'll probably move back to Hawaii someday, because I can afford it. I'll be one of those guys who makes enough money that I can afford to live there, screwing things up for the poor people that grew up there. So what do I know.

 
Old 11-21-2009, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Big Island- Hawaii, AK, WA where the whales are!
1,490 posts, read 4,163,618 times
Reputation: 796
Paridise calling I agree with you much on the mainland. I don't agree with you in Hawaii. Come over with your loans and experince the islands but it is very differnt than anywhere else. Even Alaska is somewhat what you are saying but also differnt. The islands are difffernt no matter what you say, people are just trying to help.

When you move to a rock many miles away with a culture very differnt than you have lived in. It is differnt. If I was struggling and trying to move to Hawaii I can see how it would/could be hell. I can get off the rock whenever I want so I have the ability to do otherwise. If I was advising someone to come over it would be again age old answer try it out for six months and then make your decision. Have the ability to be there if you want and ability to leave. I do and I love the islands, the people, talking quiet, being more alhoa but I also have realized I can't do it year round.

Working hell there is no work. My friend has been on the islands since 83 part time now as a painter after showing up this week realized there will be no work this winter. He knows the locals. He has worked every year.There is no work as a laborer or resturaunt. I have heard people last year for labor be offered 2 sanwiches and a beer for work for a day. It is tough. If you don't know anyone and not good at networking for trade for food you are screwed. My friend does come over every year lives in a room with a hot plate, air matteress, rents a room from others, was about to live off the gride without power to save $$. Does he need too, no problable not but that is much of Hawaii living. To enjoy Paradise as you call it, it is very normal to do so. Would you or any other person used to internet and cable have none, cell phone does not work at home, without a kitchen call that normal living? But it is to people living in Hawaii. Not everyone but this is not uncommon.

I have been all attitude got jobs with no experience. Can do everything but it there no work there is no work. Do you even have a clue how much to move a family or even a dog to Hawaii that is why people are helping others in redefine what you are doing because it could be a big mistake. I know people over there that have been there for years and have luckily a ohana network to help otherwise they would be in harms way now.. Luckly they have network already to help live on.

If you can afford to come to islands and get home ok. Do it. But don't think people are keeping something from you or anyone else. That is the wrong idea.Only mabey the 1% can make it from a I can do it prospective now vrs I have $$ and don't need to worry.

Last edited by nwcountrygal; 11-21-2009 at 05:53 AM..
 
Old 11-21-2009, 08:43 AM
 
26 posts, read 51,107 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
It's a little more complicated when you live on an island.
An example: Oahu is one of the only places that I've ever seen where people rent and share rooms. Not houses - rooms. That's what happens when the housing prices get blown sky high. Sure, if you make a $100K a year you can move to Hawaii and live like a guy who makes $35K per year in Texas. But what about the guy who lives in Hawaii and only makes $35K per year to begin with? He ends up working 3 jobs just to survive.

There are places on the main land where people share rooms and convert their living rooms into another bedroom to rent in order to survive. This is not just something that takes place in Hawaii.

Out of state tuition in hawaii is often cheaper than in state tuition at colleges on the main land.

College students are not freeloaders of the land. They are contributing members of the community and will rent properties and contribute positively to the local economy.

If someone feels the need to ask a forum if it is possible to make it with the resources they currently have, they should take the time to re-evaluate their plans until they have security in them. Your gut will tell you what you should do and if you are insecure about your plans they will not work.

It's okay to dream. It's even better to try (with the proper resources). There is no such thing as failure when it comes to following what is in your heart.

People are often more negative when they do not have to have face to face interactions with you. It's what happens on forums.

All of my interactions with people in Hawaii have been nothing but helpful and supportive. I have not found anyone who did not want to help me in my transition. It's all in your approach and they way you conduct yourself. You also need to understand how to ask important questions to the right people when they come along. Filter out the negativity because it will unfortnately be there.

I suspect some of the really negative posters here have never lived on the main land and want to preserve their Hawaii. They give their perspective and have no perspective of living on the main land. If you are where you are supposed to be in your life God will provide you with the resources to be able to provide for yourself.

I am moving for school as well and my plans are well underway. I wish you the best ParadiseCalling.
 
Old 11-21-2009, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Hawaii
1,707 posts, read 7,015,281 times
Reputation: 1076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
It's a little more complicated when you live on an island. People come, housing gets more expensive, jobs become more rare, etc. Investors who don't live there will cause housing prices to skyrocket. Eventually what was awesome begins to suck so much it is barely bearable. Once you reach that tipping point, you get lots of new people who come, get disenchanted, and leave. Only the rich can afford to move to Hawaii and have any decent sort of life.

But what about the people who grew up there? The ones who can't leave, don't want to leave all their friends and families behind, don't have a connection anywhere else? For them, living in Hawaii is more than just an experiment. If Hawaii begins to suck, they can't run on home. They have no other home to run to. If they're not rich, they're just screwed.

An example: Oahu is one of the only places that I've ever seen where people rent and share rooms. Not houses - rooms. That's what happens when the housing prices get blown sky high. Sure, if you make a $100K a year you can move to Hawaii and live like a guy who makes $35K per year in Texas. But what about the guy who lives in Hawaii and only makes $35K per year to begin with? He ends up working 3 jobs just to survive.

All that said, you are right. It's inevitable. And to be fair, I'll probably move back to Hawaii someday, because I can afford it. I'll be one of those guys who makes enough money that I can afford to live there, screwing things up for the poor people that grew up there. So what do I know.
Boxcar Overkill You are right on target with your observations on Hawaii.

Currently I live on Kauai and most locals will work more than one job (2-3 if they can find them). Even then there will be multiple families or generations within an 1000-1200 square foot house. I see houses with 6-7 cars parked in front all over the place. When you make $8-$12 an hour and houses cost $400K+ I guess this is what happens and I might note this is not new and the way things have been for years. This also explains why they will hire locals first plus the fact that on an island most everyone is related or know someone in common.

Also for this reason there is much resentment towards Haoles (mainlanders) like myself. I like many before me came to the islands after retiring and brought my money with me. This as observed above has caused the price of housing to skyrocket over the years and caused the locals to get pissed off (can't blame them).

When it comes to wages Hawaii is not like most places in the US. Most places in the US where the cost of living is high so are the wages (NYC, DC, SF). Not here, wages are LOW; I guess they have a captive audience.

As one might expect Hawaii's fortunes are directly tied to their #1 industry, tourism. Tourism is off as much as 50% so Hawaii is feeling the recession worse than most states and showing it.

In closing you draw your own conclusions as so whether now is the right time for you to move to paradise...
 
Old 11-21-2009, 11:12 AM
 
820 posts, read 3,024,039 times
Reputation: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise Calling View Post
It really seems like none of the people who live in Hawaii have a single good thing to say to someone who aspires to relocate there. It's nothing but negativity. You'll be an outsider. Watch how you speak. You'll never find a job. You'll never be accepted unless you learn to behave the same as everyone else. I can only hope this closed-minded view is not shared by everyone who lives in Hawaii. Then again, the positive people are probably outside enjoying Hawaii rather than sitting at their computer telling everyone else how dismal the outlook there is.
Hmm, it seems you perceive a broad-brush negativity, but you reflect the same thing in your post. "None of the people who live in Hawaii have a single good thing to say..." Gosh, that pretty much sounds as negative a perception as you accuse us of having! So not true...

I respectfully suggest you re-read many of the helpful posts here, where folks are making suggestions, providing insight into life here, and often providing very specific information. Sure, there are posts that tell of difficulties that could be encountered. But perhaps those aren't intended as a way of discouraging anyone. Perhaps they are just suggestions on how to achieve success in this particular environment.

If you are looking for all fluff and air, read the travel brochures. If someone is telling you that respecting local cultures and customs will result in having more friends, landing a job, or otherwise fitting in, then that isn't negativity, it's just experienced observation. Don't be discourage, just read and consider, then give life here a try and see what works for you.

Granted, people who visit and then also participate in any forum are going to be a subset of the entire population. The vast majority aren't here posting, they are out there doing everything else. But there are many regulars who have been so giving in their time and advice. They deserve our respect and a fair acknowledgment of their contribution in this forum.

I'm extremely happy here, and think that my move to the islands 5 years ago has been one of the best things I've ever done for myself. I would hope my posts are helpful and encouraging. But encouraging in a realistic way, reflecting a real paradise that does exist.. not the one in the movies or brochures.. a better one.

Yes, to afford living here you have to work steadily and perhaps put in more hours than you do other places. In general, many many things cost more here than in other places. That's just economics. Yes, it's generally true that hiring managers might prefer local, longtime residents over new transplants. But that's just because statistically so many people leave in about 2 years. That doesn't matter if you plan on a high turnover job, like in the service industry. But if you are trying to get hired in a position where you plan to stay for a while, it can be frustrating to figure out how to prove that you will be around.

You have said you plan to be on the islands for a while, then move on to Tahiti. Come on out! Enjoy the islands, bring a [more] positive attitude, see how friendly and helpful most people are, and be the same in exchange. Then come back and post on the forum to tell others how life here has been for you.

Hopefully you will see the positive, and not just the negative, in the real life here.
 
Old 11-21-2009, 11:27 AM
 
28 posts, read 112,479 times
Reputation: 42
Paradise, I say go for it! I agree most posts here are negative. Maybe a healthy dose of reality to some degree, but definitely overly negative. Trust me, happy, well-balanced people rarely get on forums to talk down their place of residence. They live their lives. It's human nature to want a place to complain when things aren't going well. The opposite is rarely true. So take it with a grain of salt.

I say this not to discredit what the main "group" of posters here are saying. They all have valid experiences that they are sharing. But ultimately, you've got to make your own well-informed decision based on your life and how you live it and you are not going to find back-patters or confirmation on these forums these days, so don't look for it. I guess I should say don't go, it's bleak, you will be homeless and get robbed and killed on the beach. Whatever, I have no credibility either way.
 
Old 11-21-2009, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Portland Oregon via Hawaii
440 posts, read 771,653 times
Reputation: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise Calling View Post
It really seems like none of the people who live in Hawaii have a single good thing to say to someone who aspires to relocate there. It's nothing but negativity. You'll be an outsider. Watch how you speak. You'll never find a job. You'll never be accepted unless you learn to behave the same as everyone else. I can only hope this closed-minded view is not shared by everyone who lives in Hawaii. Then again, the positive people are probably outside enjoying Hawaii rather than sitting at their computer telling everyone else how dismal the outlook there is.

I lived there most of my life.
Here is the wisdom I learned in my day.
There is a pecking order. The locals don't like the haole, get use to it.
Without the locals, the Haole's would act much differently. and for the worse. I have seen the way they are when they are the top dog.
That is normal though. Thats human nature.
If you learn what not to do to get beat up (its gonna happen in school not mater what you do) then life in Hawaii is a lot of fun.
After living in Hawaii for a few years, you become acclimated. your prospective on distance will change. 20 miles will be "to far". If someone you know moves to the other side of the island, even tho its only a few miles away, you will soon forget about them.
The weather is so constant, if will feel like groundhog day (the movie).
If you can afford to buy a home, the way house prices went up, you will make more on your house then from any other income.
In a way, making Hawaii a very profitable place to live. (that was then).
and lastly, when the ocean starts looking like prison walls, its time to move.

Hope that helps.

OH almost forgot, and what ever you do PLEASE DON'T HONK YOUR HORN, or give someone the finger when you drive. I almost guaranty a arse whipping is soon to follow. There is no trash talk prior to a fight. you mis behave and a beating will happen like RIGHT NOW. And that includes on the highway. they will follow you off the highway or stop you on that highway and beat your arse RIGHT NOW. DON'T DO IT!
 
Old 11-21-2009, 11:32 PM
 
4,918 posts, read 22,607,758 times
Reputation: 6303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise Calling View Post
The "don't come here, there's no jobs and we don't want you" attitude is very reminiscent of the prevailing sentiment towards immigration into the U.S. from Mexico. People have a feeling of scarcity and ownership of the land. Anything another person gains is somehow their loss.
</p>
That is not what people are saying to you. They are telling you the truth about issues facing a person moving to Hawaii. You may or may not face some or all those problems, but that does not mean they are not real.What people are telling you is to open your eyes and see the truth and not the fantasy.

Nobody wants you to fail when you go to Hawaii. they want you to make it. But you will not make it if you have no idea what to expect. Some of the things you are told may be simple for you to solve and get around. But if you close your ears to what you are being told, you will walk into the wall and like so many, complain about Hawaii not being the paradise that you created in your own mind.

I have met many poeple who ended up leaving Hawaii because they did not know some of the roadblocks and when the roadblock appeared they were unprepared for them. The sad thing is that all the problems were things they were told could happen but they shut their eyes to it.

But if you want to put on blinders and only hear the good, if you want to ignore the truth, if you want to pretend that Hawaii is going to change to something else once you arrive, if you think the problemns will never fall on you, if you don't care to know what to plan for; that's your decission - but it doesn't mean those thing will dissapear when you arrive and that you may not fall flat on your face. Just remeber, if that happens, don't complain - you decided to ignore what didn't fit into your nice little springtime in paradise box.

If you think that people are telling you some of the negatives because they are trying to hog Hawaii all for themselves, you are not even in the same ballpark.
 
Old 11-21-2009, 11:38 PM
 
19 posts, read 147,216 times
Reputation: 33
Alikair, solid advice, agree 100%. My assessment is a non biased observation. I love Hawaii, and think the people are great ! Now for the facts. Oahu, Honolulu area. There is nothing magical about the place. It is actually just as difficult, if not more-so to live here than in LA, were I am from originally. I have been here 3 years. Make significantly above average income, and I really do not think it is worth moving here if you are not from here originally or have been here for a long time, unless you have too. People that come here to find a job better buy a return ticket at the time of the move. There are more homeless people here now, almost looking like Santa monica , CA. The reason is that it is way too crowded. More congested than downtown LA. Sure you can go to remote areas, but downtown, forget about it. Commutes around 1=1.5 hours on a small island. think about it. Housing prices are out of control, and jobs are rare. You don't even notice the nice things after awhile if you are busting your butt and living here. So , unless you are rich, find a better value location so you can make more money, and you will be forced to spend less. As a tourist, its paradise.
 
Old 11-22-2009, 12:51 AM
 
Location: galaxy far far away
3,110 posts, read 5,360,527 times
Reputation: 7280
OP - it sounds like you are a college kid. What is good advice for others may not apply to you. A lot of people are writing and asking about moving kids, kids with disabilities, dogs, families, and entire established lives from some tiny town in the deep south to Hawaii. They ask about how to get a job, whether or not they can "live off the land" and what the costs of housing and food are. The very very good hearted people of Hawaii give an honest answer. If you are passing through as a college kid who can live with bricks and boards in a tiny studio apartment that rents for $1,500 a month... go for it. But you need to read the original OP's question when you look at the answers.

I love Hawaii. I lived there 30 years and now live in Phoenix. Hawaii will always be the home of my heart, and all my kids and many relatives still live there. I go back 6 times a year to work. I have read the majority of posts answering questions about moving there. I haven't seen many that I would disagree with. I'm a haole and only occasionally ran into the prejudice some describe. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Some may be brought on by the writer, some just is what it is.

But it's shortsighted to disparage the good folks who give thoughtful answers to questions about uprooting an entire family 4,000 miles away from what they are used to. I say this with absolute aloha for the islands: it's a different planet. It has a unique culture, a unique job situation (run very much by very strong unions), the multi-cultural mix is unlike anything anywhere else (and yes, that includes New York and Toronto...). In short - it doesn't fit ANY mold.

I was a college kid when I moved there. At that age, adaptation to discomfort is a bit easier. Especially if you are used to roughing it and are an adventurer. But RIGHT NOW is a really bad time in Hawaii. Thousands are getting laid off. The meetings industry has tanked, thanks to some doofuses in Washington who informed TARP recipients that they couldn't/ shouldn't hold meetings or "go to resorts"... And, the hundreds of thousands out of work on the mainland are causing a ripple effect in the islands. Tourism is the number one economic engine. Without it, Hawaii could slip into bankruptcy. In the first quarter of 2009, Hawaii had a $184 MILLION Tax Revenue shortfall. That means, for the first time in a long, long time, Government workers are being laid off. Since Government employs about 1/3 of the islands, that is also huge. It is NOT an easy time in Hawaii right now. People are used to working 2 and 3 jobs to survive. A lot of them are down to one job... so that doesn't show up on the unemployment register. So when you look at state by state comparisons, it doesn't look bad in Hawaii. Till you go there.

When people tell you the things to be cautious about, they aren't trying to "keep you from Hawaii." The posters who say that are definitely coming from their own paranoia, and I'd ignore their advice. Same goes for posts about extreme racism. My experience of Hawaii people in general is we aren't all that racist. We DO make jokes about every race -- but that's just cuz we're talking about our relatives... (I'm related to Hawaiian, Tahitian, Filipino, Japanese, Samoan, Chinese, Portuguese, Black, Spanish, Czech, Irish, German, Blackfoot, Scottish, and English... LOL... In Hawaii, we still GET to celebrate our ancestry!)

So - chill out. Come if you think you've got it handled. But don't ever say we didn't warn you. It's hard on locals when people come and go the way they do. It screws up rentals and jobs. And it's tough when you make a new friend and they go home right away. So yeah, sometimes we hold back till we know you are serious about this place we love. And we want to protect a very special place.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Hawaii

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top