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Old 12-06-2009, 08:02 PM
 
4,918 posts, read 22,633,923 times
Reputation: 6303

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Quote:
Originally Posted by googoo914 View Post
Either people are being honest with you by telling you the truth about making it there, or they want you to stay away and say bad things just to keep you from moving there!
Good comment.

Most responses are people trying to bring some reality. They are not saying don't come and they are not trying to keep Hawaii to themselves. Many people make the choice to move because of a vacation and they think that vacation is going to be just like living on Hawaii. Many think Hawaii is not supposed to have any of the same issues from where they came. Everything in Hawaii is supposed to be some magical gift to them. But if a reply does not fit neatly in a person's vacation view of Hawaii, they get all pissed off and believe its for a reason it was not intended.

Your from NYC so if someone was vacationing there, went to broadway, walked central park, took in some nice restaurants, and did all this at their leisure, they may think NYC is some theatrical, jog in the park, food fest all the time. If they were to say to you, I love NYC and I plan to move there this January, move into a building overlooking Central Park South with a doorman, go to the theaters every night and party on the weekend, and I don't have any job lined up but I worked retail at Walmart in kansas so maybe I'll go to Macy's and get a nice paying executive sales job. And spend my mornings shopping fifth avenue and take a taxi to work, all with a savings of $3,000, you might have some serious words of wisdom for them. Not that they shouldn’t try, but maybe rethink the doorman building, location, job and less 4 Seasons and more corner greek diners.

That is what the bulk of the answers provided here is like. But some people think because your saying a Park Avenue penthouse is expensive, they freak on you and say your trying to hog NYC.

Yes, there are some who will say don't move to NYC because you’ll be murdered the second you step out of a cab, or your will never get a job, or stuff like that. We can all see through their comments (Most turn out to be people who didn’t take any advice, moved to Hawaii and couldn't make it so they have to say as much bad as they can because its be their fault so it has to be everything else)

Just like those who say there are no jobs on Hawaii. Of course there are jobs. But getting it may require the same effort as getting a job everywhere else. But many dreamers think they will come over, walk to the lobby of their hotel in their swimsuit and slippars, and say I Am Here and get twenty job offers because Hawaii is so much a paradise so it has to be that way. You will have to hit the streets and work at getting a job just like everywhere else. Yet somepeople think there is a horde of jobs for transplants being secretly waiting for them. Just like they think Hawaii has a secret load of $1,000 a month, 3 bedroom furnished homes with maid, on a white sand beach, with dancers and feast every night, within walking distance to work and next to the best private school. These home are just waiting for their arrival.

Many people also have an idea of what they want Hawaii to be for them when they come and live, but some things just are not that way on Hawaii and all the amount of expecting it because that’s their vision of Hawaii isn’t going to change things just because they got off a plane.

They don’t want advice. They don’t want help avoiding landmines. They don’t want information on living on Hawaii. All they want is that lei greeting and mai tai cocktail reception (just like on vacation).

So moving to Hawaii is not doom and gloom, but it is not some tropical easy street neither. All anyone is trying to tell these people is here is a concern. Deal with it in advance, or deal with it when your here, but its a real concern. If you know its a possibility, you can plan for or around it, but if they ignore it thinking people are trying to be negative, they may be in for a rude awakening.

 
Old 12-06-2009, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Hawaii
1,707 posts, read 7,021,968 times
Reputation: 1076
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
Good comment.

Most responses are people trying to bring some reality. They are not saying don't come and they are not trying to keep Hawaii to themselves. Many people make the choice to move because of a vacation and they think that vacation is going to be just like living on Hawaii. Many think Hawaii is not supposed to have any of the same issues from where they came. Everything in Hawaii is supposed to be some magical gift to them. But if a reply does not fit neatly in a person's vacation view of Hawaii, they get all pissed off and believe its for a reason it was not intended.

Your from NYC so if someone was vacationing there, went to broadway, walked central park, took in some nice restaurants, and did all this at their leisure, they may think NYC is some theatrical, jog in the park, food fest all the time. If they were to say to you, I love NYC and I plan to move there this January, move into a building overlooking Central Park South with a doorman, go to the theaters every night and party on the weekend, and I don't have any job lined up but I worked retail at Walmart in kansas so maybe I'll go to Macy's and get a nice paying executive sales job. And spend my mornings shopping fifth avenue and take a taxi to work, all with a savings of $3,000, you might have some serious words of wisdom for them. Not that they shouldn’t try, but maybe rethink the doorman building, location, job and less 4 Seasons and more corner greek diners.

That is what the bulk of the answers provided here is like. But some people think because your saying a Park Avenue penthouse is expensive, they freak on you and say your trying to hog NYC.

Yes, there are some who will say don't move to NYC because you’ll be murdered the second you step out of a cab, or your will never get a job, or stuff like that. We can all see through their comments (Most turn out to be people who didn’t take any advice, moved to Hawaii and couldn't make it so they have to say as much bad as they can because its be their fault so it has to be everything else)

Just like those who say there are no jobs on Hawaii. Of course there are jobs. But getting it may require the same effort as getting a job everywhere else. But many dreamers think they will come over, walk to the lobby of their hotel in their swimsuit and slippars, and say I Am Here and get twenty job offers because Hawaii is so much a paradise so it has to be that way. You will have to hit the streets and work at getting a job just like everywhere else. Yet somepeople think there is a horde of jobs for transplants being secretly waiting for them. Just like they think Hawaii has a secret load of $1,000 a month, 3 bedroom furnished homes with maid, on a white sand beach, with dancers and feast every night, within walking distance to work and next to the best private school. These home are just waiting for their arrival.

Many people also have an idea of what they want Hawaii to be for them when they come and live, but some things just are not that way on Hawaii and all the amount of expecting it because that’s their vision of Hawaii isn’t going to change things just because they got off a plane.

They don’t want advice. They don’t want help avoiding landmines. They don’t want information on living on Hawaii. All they want is that lei greeting and mai tai cocktail reception (just like on vacation).

So moving to Hawaii is not doom and gloom, but it is not some tropical easy street neither. All anyone is trying to tell these people is here is a concern. Deal with it in advance, or deal with it when your here, but its a real concern. If you know its a possibility, you can plan for or around it, but if they ignore it thinking people are trying to be negative, they may be in for a rude awakening.
100% accurate and correct; good job putting it into words.
 
Old 12-07-2009, 10:41 AM
 
129 posts, read 534,062 times
Reputation: 118
I reject that idea completely. I haven't seen anyone on this thread with such ridiculous expectations. I've read through much of this board, and I can tell you I can't find one example of someone expecting living in Hawai'i to be the same as an all-inclusive resort.

If you've made yourself in any city, any where, you know the realities of life. I posted asking for subdivision reviews, and people tell me "You know, things are more expensive here. You will have to pay for air conditioning." and it's completely useless to me, and I'm sure just about anyone on the board. I pay monthly bills, I buy food, I am aware of the expenses that are incurred in living ANYWHERE. Prices in Hawai'i are not that much more expensive than mainland, and are in many cases cheaper. It's actually cheaper than any place I've lived, and the pay isn't much different.

There are certain in-demand jobs in Hawai'i that offer lots of job opportunities in certain fields that are unique and not found anywhere else.

This idea that everyone is some wide-eyed idiot that can somehow afford an all-inclusive vacation at the Kona Hilton, yet doesn't have any kind of a grasp on reality, is ludicrous.

For many people, Hawai'i is a paradise. And it continues to be so after they move there, and for many years after. It's warm, sunny, rains, you can grow food, it's beautiful, cheap to live simply, you can live off-grid- it really is an amazing place. It also has crime, lack of jobs, housing can be expensive- but where in the US is NOT LIKE THAT? Assuming that everyone comes from some middle-American lifestyle, and are all looking to live out their vacation in real life is silly. I agree, there are realities that need to be faced; but "Getting a job is hard" and "There are bugs here" isn't really worth typing, is it?

I've gotten really great information from people on this board, and really pointless information. The good information is intuitive, and doesn't include assumptions. I had one poster tell me to cruise out to Hawi'ian Acres when it was pouring, to see where the water goes, and directed me to an online map of flood zones. That was awesome! It was so incredibly helpful, it saved me so much time, and I really am so grateful for those who choose to help others with their time, instead of elaborating on bizarre fables about moving to the islands.
 
Old 12-07-2009, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
11,048 posts, read 23,925,523 times
Reputation: 10901
Aloha Alaskagrown,

Perhaps you don't notice them on the forum, but we frequently meet them here in real life and having them not show up in the first place would save everyone a lot of annoyance. There are loads of folks who have just up and "moved to Paradise" just to run into a huge reality check. Some of them have been on this forum, although, perhaps you didn't notice them. I'm sure there would be folks wanting to move to Alaska which I would think were making reasonable inquiries however which someone from Alaska would instantly know by the type of inquiries being made that the person is going to be immediate bear bait.

We get really tired of dealing with folks who don't belong here, whether they end up living in our neighborhood or just the folks grumbling at the cashier at the grocery. Starry eyed "we are living in Paradise" idiots are very annoying. Usually step two of "moving to Paradise" is telling everyone else how to do things, usually just like how it was on the mainland where it wasn't Paradise and where they end up going back to within several years. In the several years they are here, we help them since they are pitiful otherwise, then they go away and they basically use up time and resources without returning anything. Doing this decade after decade can be quite tiresome. Having them arrive with a compatible attitude saves everyone a lot of hassle.

It isn't so much trying to portray Hawaii as a terrible place, it is trying to explain that IT IS NOT "PARADISE". There are bugs and thieves, wear bug spray and lock your doors. If nice weather makes "paradise" for you, then it might fit your ideals, perhaps we need to define "paradise".
 
Old 12-07-2009, 11:36 AM
 
129 posts, read 534,062 times
Reputation: 118
You are correct that we see this in Alaska as well- people moving here not knowing that the sun doesn't set in the summer, and doesn't rise in the winter, that the mosquitoes here outweigh all the caribou by a factor of ten, and so on. And it is annoying when they arrive, and complain about there not being a 'mall' to shop in, or that things are expensive. It is annoying, but I don't let it make me bitter, or angry towards people that didn't count on certain things. No one is all-knowing, and people can make mistakes. They either make it, or they don't, and they leave. It truly doesn't matter much to me. Every year at the Uni here, we start in the fall with about 5,000 students. By spring, that number drops to about 2.5-3,000. Such is life.

But really, if helping people wears on you, and is too much, maybe you shouldn't do it? Some people are not cut out to help others, or they get burnt out. Myself, I can answer stupid questions, or take "Why don't you have an Olive Garden?" or "There's nothing to do here!" and let it roll of my back. There will always be people that show up to live in a 10X10 cabin for the winter, and end up back in Montana in a month. And there are also the people who stay. I don't let it get to me.

And there are bugs and thieves everywhere, and in much greater numbers than in Hawai'i. Ultimately, if you let some grumpy mainlanders ruin your fun, maybe it's time to stop reaching out to help them?

But just like people in Hawai'i, Alaskans LOVE to complain about stupid cheechakos. New Yorkers love to call out country bumpkins. People in Thailand love to call newcomers farang. Hawaii is not unique in it's dislike for newcomers. Maybe transplants have more to learn, coming from Iowa to the islands, than if they were to move to Seattle, maybe not. It seems to me that there isn't much of a difference in the negative attitudes all over America, and those in Hawaii. No one likes new people in 'their' space.
 
Old 12-07-2009, 03:42 PM
 
4,918 posts, read 22,633,923 times
Reputation: 6303
Quote:
Originally Posted by alaskangrown View Post
Prices in Hawai'i are not that much more expensive than mainland, and are in many cases cheaper. It's actually cheaper than any place I've lived, and the pay isn't much different.
You have proven my point about the need for people to be aware about Hawaii's reality.

Hawaii prices are different from all other areas. Prices for goods and services is higher consistently. It may not be on a select item, or it may not be on a Hawaii sales price vs. mainland regular price, but it is higher. Even if it's only a few pennies more, that adds up over and over again. If a person came thinking everything was the same price, they would not be prepared to adjust their habits to match.

How many people come from areas where air conditioning is commonly used? Maybe they were using it too much, but that is how they use air conditioning. They come to Hawaii and use their air conditioning and find the 40+ cents a kilowatt hour a killer so they adjust to the high cost by reducing their air conditioner use. They decide they used it on the mainland because it wasn’t expensive and maybe they used it more than they need it. So on Hawaii they say we really don’t have to have it on as much as we do. That adjustment lowers their monthly expense to near what they were paying on the mainland. That does not mean Hawaii electrical rates are the same, it means someone adjusted to Hawaii's high cost of electricity by reducing use.

On the mainland people get off work and head to the nearest supermarket. They buy what they need and pay a bill. They may not spend too much time looking at sales or comparing unit cost because it's so easy and all supermarkets are about the same. On Hawaii, if they did that, they would see their grocery bill soar. So they plan their shopping and buy the specials and look for lower prices or use a retailer they may not had been caught dead in on the mainland. That adjustment lowers their expense to near what they were paying on the mainland. But again, it was not the same as on the mainland, it was the adjustment to Hawaii's high prices that caused the need for a change in habits result in what looks like mainland pricing. It’s not that Hawaii prices dropped for that person, its that a person is now adjusting to sensible shopping to make the most of lower cost. If they returned to their mainland shopping habits or if they could not adjust and are set on doing it as they did on the mainland, their expense would rise.

So I say to everyone, Hawaii's is a very expensive place to live if you plan on behaving the exact same way as you did on the mainland. So make sure you have the money saved or have the income to support these high prices! or, since you are aware now of the high prices, adjust your living so that your expenses come in line with your income and savings. It may take a bit of finding the grove, but you can do it now that you’re aware you may need to do it.
 
Old 12-07-2009, 04:34 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,488,450 times
Reputation: 1775
Alaskangrown,

My base of knowledge comes from Oahu - I don't know the situation in any of the other islands.

But anyone who denies that the wage/cost-of-living ratio on Oahu is not a lot different than it is on the mainland is not being honest. Things cost a lot more in Hawaii, and people make a good deal less.

This is not a subjective opinion. It's easily verifiable. Wages in Hawaii are about 10% below the national average. Check this out:
State Rankings - Average Annual Wage, 2005

U.S. average wage (in 2005) = $40,671
Hawaii average wage (in 2005) = $36,353

Hawaii wages are about what a person would make if the lived in Missouri and North Carolina.

Meanwhile, Hawaii has the HIGHEST cost of living in the U.S.:
Cost of Living 3rd Quarter 2009
(scroll down to state-by-state comparison.)

In every catagory ; Groceries, housing, utilities, transportation, healthcare, etc, Hawaii is more expensive than anyplace in the U.S. In some cases - WAY more expensive.

This isn't rocket science, and it's not something reasonable people can disagree about. Hawaii is the most expensive state to live in inside the U.S., and the wages are well below the national average.

If you want to have a normal middle class life, its harder in hawaii. Not impossible, but harder. By normal middle class life I mean you want your kids to have a decent education, have enough money to go to the movies once in awhile, and maybe save a little away for a rainy day. All of that is harder in Hawaii.

Of course, there are still wonderful things about Hawaii. It's an amazing place. But we shouldn't fool people and act like living there is about as easy as living in most places in the U.S.
 
Old 12-07-2009, 06:37 PM
 
129 posts, read 534,062 times
Reputation: 118
I completely disagree. Until you've lived in a place where a can of frozen orange juice is $12, or a freezer-burnt 12oz package of ground beef is $18, you are not looking at the whole picture.

Or maybe that's the problem?

The information you have given is the AVERAGE cost of living- there are huge differences in wage and cost depending on whether or not you are in a city. In Alaska, living in Anchorage is cheap. Living in Fairbanks, Ft. Yukon, Nome, Ruby or Glennallen is astronomical. Heating fuel is upwards of $10 a gallon. A gallon of milk is usually $10-12 a gallon. Even in the big city of Fairbanks- I go to Hilo and I am literally saving money by vacationing, instead of paying heating and eating at home! Not everyone is moving form the midwest- like I said, live in NYC, or DC for a month, and tell me that it's cheaper than Honolulu or Hilo. It's not.

Just like living in Syracuse is cheap, but NYC is expensive. You're right, it's not rocket science, and that's why individuals should be less concerned about averages, and more concerned about their own personal needs, and specific costs of living.

There are many more luxury accommodation and housing in both California and Hawaii, and that will also drive up the average cost of living. So those claims that 'everything' is more expensive is crazy. A trip to craigslist will show you; you can't find an 1br in North Pole with electricity, heat and water for under $1200, and utilities will cost another $600 a month at least. A beater Subaru wagon from the 80's, with 200K miles is $1800 in Alaska.

I am not saying that it isn't more expensive than some places, it obviously is. But that is blown out of proportion, and is assumptive in lifestyle. Not everyone needs air con, or even electricity.
 
Old 12-07-2009, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Big Island- Hawaii, AK, WA where the whales are!
1,490 posts, read 4,170,397 times
Reputation: 796
Aslaskagrown..

I don't agree with your posts with people being negative. I do agree with your posts from being in Alaska this year food, gas cost of living and type of living is more expensive than Hawaii. In the main areas housing maybe more expensive in Hawaii, close in certain areas, but your right in everything else.

You are new to this forum. The Hawaii people as Hotzcat have said go through the same broken record over and over and over with on average maybe 5% actually move and 2% actually stay in Hawaii. You can talk to Warptman on the Alaska forum and he is tired of doing the broken record also.

I got tons of information before I came over to Hawaii last year. As you said certain people give you valuable information such as see where the water flows and flood zones. Unfortuantly many posts are answering (trying to give Aloha) help of reality to people. You maybe see things from a difernt preospective by living in Alaska you know expenses, logic, need to sustain your self and family. You can not assume most people have an idea like you do. The scary thing is they don't!

After living in western space - I didn't think to talk quiet?? My friends that have tons of land come over and I constantly have to make them talk in inside voice... that isn't what we are used to. Crap half of us (or more) are loosing out hearing. But if someone here hadn't pointed that out I wouldn't of had a clue.

I am sorry you think people are being negative, I think your problem is you have too much common sense for the many posters here and assume they have the same logic. Not meaning to offend anyone. but living in Hawaii and living in Alaska needs/makes for differnt logic than the typical mainlander in general. I have only found postive from the previouse posters and in the ones that talk all about - your white, your going to be beat up, Hawaii sucks I just don't read. If you don't like it yoiu are able not to open a post.
Unless you need to find a spot to debate you know more... I know no Hawaiian or local would presume to think they know more than you in Alaska.

Good luck on building your house and moving to the islands. I really hope you find your Aloha and know lots of people on the BI that are snowbirds from Alaska! If you would want to meet some! The Alaska Hawaii golf tournement is Kona every year!

and Hotzcat I am returning wanta sell some eggs???
 
Old 12-07-2009, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
11,048 posts, read 23,925,523 times
Reputation: 10901
Not too many eggs right now, the chickens are molting, but I have a friend in Hilo who usually has extra eggs as well as some neighbors here who might. PM me about eggs. Soon we will be starting up the incubators and hatching out more chickens. Hawaii can't be that terrible of a place if there's chickens all over, now can it? I would think chickens in Alaska would end up either frozen or eaten by something over the winter!
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