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No, comparing someone traversing international borders to someone traversing state borders was the point. I would think that obvious.
Now, if this fella objects to Hawaiians moving from Hawaii to one of the other 49 States or associated American territories, then we might have a match.
No Moth...
Quite to the contrary. The original point was that you failed to see the irony in the fact that Vanskills objected to Mexicans crossing the U.S. border and immigrating to California. While simultaneously, he feels perfectly entitled to freely travel to Hawaii, without native Hawaiians having any reservations, whatsoever.
Had Tiger Beer never brought that up as a point. Your post would never had been made to respond to it, in the first place. You were trying to make an argument of international border intrusion versus simply a US citizen traveling from one state to another. You were ignoring the fact, that this entire thread has been about racism in Hawaii and why or why not?
I therefore, would never had responded to your post. But since you respond by ignoring the point, I felt it my obligation to direct you into a more appropriate course.
Looking at the issue purely from a racial standpoint, Hawaiians who are resentful of whites are certainly not going to concede statehood of any kind, because their entire argument negates the authencity of that premise. Therefore, whites traveling to Hawaii as viewed by any resentful Hawaiians, will be seen as white intruders and NOT fellow US citizens. Those truly resentful would be inclined to call them "Hoalies".
Vanskills, would therefore had been correct in his assessment of the racist overtones expressed by native Hawaiians.
That's were the irony creeps into the picture. If Vanskills can clearly comprehend his objection to Mexicans crossing the US border to immigrate into the United States, into "His" land, or country, then why can't he comprehend the native Hawaiians' objections to his white American self , "intruding" into their land, yet again!
Have A Nice Day!
Last edited by Farrowlane; 12-01-2010 at 11:43 AM..
What exactly is your definition of "native" and "Hawaiians"?
There are many posts that throw around these words and a large part of the ignorance in the discussion is that most people have prescribed definition of these words that are false.
Do you know the ethnicity make up beyond what you see in the stats on city-data. Hardly, the Hawaiians you talk about have at least one OTHER ethnicity in their bloodline. I think there is like only 1 or 2 pure ethnic Hawaiian(s) left.
Do you know that the daily cultural and social make up of Hawaii is a combination of influences from different countries?
This should give you an idea of how integrated various cultures and ethnicities are within Hawaii before you ignorantly throw around words like "native Hawaiians."
That is the problem outsiders come to Hawaii (including those that write articles for small insignificant news website) and scratch their head saying I don't get it.
I remember after 9/11 happened. Some Mainlander wrote an article for some obscure insignificant website that go some attention. The person said that she lived in Hawaii for 10 years, like as if this gives her any credibility.
She proclaimed that Hawaii people are not patriotic for not running around the streets swinging the US flag around and screaming their heads off. She asked a few people if they knew what happened in NYC and they were like, sure they do.
The problem is that in Hawaii the cultural and social norm is not to act out but internalize, but since the Mainlander doesn't quite know this nuance, quickly proclaimed that we are unsympathetic un-patriotic people thatdon't care about what happens to the US.
Just because you live here 10 blah blah years doesn't mean you are integrated into Hawaii, giving one a sense of authority of knowledge about our social and cultural ways.
Have you been to many local luaus for birthdays of 1 year olds?
Have you been over to the house of a portuguese family for a special event and know what that experience is about?
Have you been to a funeral at Hosoi and check on who catered the food? Have you been invited at a Samoan event sitting around sipping kava?
Have you at least joined in a get together at someones house for potluck with a spread full of dishes either bought or homemade from every ethnicity from the surrounding regions?
The problem you haven't, which will always leave you as an outsider and discredited for not truely know about Hawaii, is that people from Hawaii are born and raised 3 to 4 generations worth, and unless you have a girlfriend or marry some 4th generation Hawaii born person you will never fully know and can only offer biased ignorant opinions that go on, and on for pages.
I'm not trying to define and segregate. If you want to come to Hawaii and experience something you can't in the other 48 states, come in with a clue.
By definition: Ignorance is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge).
I think a lot of people come to Hawaii and think "ooh it'll be cool," giving them something to talk about one night when there isn't anything on tv. Then they make it a reallity and go on craigslist and look for the cheapest place they can find in Hilo, Waianae, Kauai and google earth the address and be like "omg, I found paradise" then you come and find you live next to the Hawaii version of the people in "deliverance."
That's were the irony creeps into the picture. If Vanskills can clearly comprehend his objection to Mexicans crossing the US border to immigrate into the United States, into "His" land, or country, then why can't he comprehend the native Hawaiians' objections to his white American self , "intruding" into their land, yet again!
Have A Nice Day!
So, are you speaking of the "native" Hawaiians who are of predominantly aboriginal Polynesian decent (which I believe are fairly small in number) or those of Japanese, Filipino, Chinese, Samoan or mixed race who don't really have anymore of an "ancestral" claim to the islands than the Mexicans or Anglos (or any non-aboriginal ethnicity) do to California and the Southwest?
Quite to the contrary. The original point was that you failed to see the irony in the fact that Vanskills objected to Mexicans crossing the U.S. border and immigrating to California. While simultaneously, he feels perfectly entitled to freely travel to Hawaii, without native Hawaiians having any reservations, whatsoever.
Had Tiger Beer never brought that up as a point. Your post would never had been made to respond to it, in the first place. You were trying to make an argument of international border intrusion versus simply a US citizen traveling from one state to another. You were ignoring the fact, that this entire thread has been about racism in Hawaii and why or why not?
I therefore, would never had responded to your post. But since you respond by ignoring the point, I felt it my obligation to direct you into a more appropriate course.
Looking at the issue purely from a racial standpoint, Hawaiians who are resentful of whites are certainly not going to concede statehood of any kind, because their entire argument negates the authencity of that premise. Therefore, whites traveling to Hawaii as viewed by any resentful Hawaiians, will be seen as white intruders and NOT fellow US citizens. Those truly resentful would be inclined to call them "Hoalies".
Vanskills, would therefore had been correct in his assessment of the racist overtones expressed by native Hawaiians.
That's were the irony creeps into the picture. If Vanskills can clearly comprehend his objection to Mexicans crossing the US border to immigrate into the United States, into "His" land, or country, then why can't he comprehend the native Hawaiians' objections to his white American self , "intruding" into their land, yet again!
Have A Nice Day!
Yes Farrowlane.
Comparing international migration to state to state is inaccurate, inane, and just plain silly. You can spin it all you like, but it ain't gonna fly.
As for this fella who does not like Mexicans coming to California. Well firstly, I would say at this point in time, its rather moot. However, does he object to them coming legally or illegally? Illegally is just that. If legally, why? Whatever his intentions or feelings, he does have the right to object just as you have the right to welcome them. However, the good people of Hawaii have no say in the matter of other Americans coming to live there any more than New Yorkers have no say in how many Alabamans come to the Empire State or how many New Yorkers move to Florida.
In short, there are (on the books anyway) set rules as to who can come and live in the country. There are none whatsoever as to who can move from one state to another. None. Zilch. Zero.
Perhaps interdict a quota of Mexicans at the California border and send them to Hawaii?
Now, the spoonfeeding is done as its getting redundant.But you are welcome to continue your "Dog Ate my Homework" symposium.
In short, there are (on the books anyway) set rules as to who can come and live in the country. There are none whatsoever as to who can move from one state to another. None. Zilch. Zero.
And every interaction you have with strangers... how you treat them... is completely determined by "rules on the books," right?
You have no personal feelings, no pet peeves, no dislike for... say... nosepickers? I mean, there's no laws on the books against nosepickers, right? None. Zilch. Zero. So if someone flung a booger and it landed near you... you'd just smile and embrace them as a friend!
The feelings of individual people in Hawaii are not governed by "rules on the books". They may or may not be governed by rational thought. But individual people are allowed to think whatever they want.
They are allowed to think that too many mainlanders are coming and buying up the nice places and driving up prices. And they're allowed to be kind of pissy about it. And they're allowed to be rude to visitors and even malihini who are white, just because these folks remind them about how nice it used to be.
You know why they're allowed to do all this? Because there's no rules on the books against it. None. Zilch. Zero.
And to whoever compared the fact that mainlanders moving to Hawaii is just as legal as folks from Alabama moving to NYC... Um, I venture to guess that *most* haoles moving to Hawaii have a better chance at being accepted by their neighbors than someone from the deep South in NYC. Go to Manhattan, speak with a deep southern drawl, do everything real slow like they do in the South, talk about how much better it is down in Alabama, where the people are friendly and not in such a rush all the time. I'm sure you won't be called any names at all! Because there's no prejudice anywhere but Hawaii. Apparently.
I LOOOOOVE Hawaii, but anyone who thinks there isn't a lot of racism there is deluded. I have first-hand experience of housing discrimination and blatant n-word use.
Good thing is, there are a lot of wonderful people there too.
Just to put my two cents in on this subject that gets so many questions...
People who live in Hawaii are some of the nicest and most welcoming folks you will ever meet. Are there some bad apples? Of course... but where in the world are you going to go that has no bad apples? There are far, far less of them in Hawaii for certain.
But remember you're the new kid on the block. Don't go to Hawaii telling everyone how they ought to live. Don't complain that something takes a long time when one of the main reasons you moved out here was for a more quiet, laid back lifestyle. I see that a lot. New folks who come out to live here, and then complain about how things are different from the mainland.
Don't complain. If Hawaii was a fast paced lifestyle, it wouldn't be Hawaii. No matter how pretty the place is.
David
AlohaHowdy
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