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But you're not interested in talking about healthcare reform. You're giving me the choice of paying for B's war in Iraq - and/or O's war in Afghanistan - or subsidizing the health care of people like you Newenglandgirl (and my general impression of people in New England is they've always made fun of many/all of us in the south - marrying our cousins and clinging to our guns and religion and the like).
I'd like another choice. Taking the money we've been saving for the last 40 years - our entire adult lives - and spending it on ourselves during our retirement years. Robyn
Great negative stereotyping Robyn55,all part of that right wing hate thing you got going on ,i'll bet you have a whole drawer full of other negative stereotypes how about,Arabs,Asian,Europeans,Africans,Mexicans.Russ ians, Chinese,Canadians Environmentalists,Democrats, Ed Shultz..?.
As for wars? Bush got us into both wars, Obama is getting us out of one and working on a resolution to the other.
As for your savings and happy retirement? that could easily be wiped out by a catastrophic medical event and an insurance companies unwillingness to cover it.
The underlying problem with skyrocketing costs for healthcare is the government, for criminalizing the unlicensed practice of medicine, among other things.
If you want UNIVERSAL health care, you have to get government out of the way. And slap down the AMA. Both are responsible for the scarcity of practitioners "allowed" to treat us.
Medical licensure is a grant of government privilege. Like all such interventions, it harms consumers and would-be competitors. It is a cartelizing device incompatible with the free market. It ought to be abolished.
The Flexner Report of 1910, which Murray N. Rothbard discusses elsewhere in this issue, further restricted entry into the profession, as legislatures closed non-AMA-approved medical schools. In 1906, there were 163 medical schools; in 1920, 85; in 1930, 76; and in 1944, 69. The relative number of physicians dropped 25%, but AMA membership zoomed almost 900%.
You're all fighting about the WRONG THING.
Skyrocketing health care costs are the consequence of letting government create a protected monopoly and then when things go wrong - let it meddle even more.
If you want costs to fall, you have to decriminalize health care, break the monopoly, expand opportunities for medical education... so that anyone can treat everyone... that's the only way you'll have UNIVERSAL health care.
The underlying problem with skyrocketing costs for healthcare is the government, for criminalizing the unlicensed practice of medicine, among other things.
If you want UNIVERSAL health care, you have to get government out of the way. And slap down the AMA. Both are responsible for the scarcity of practitioners "allowed" to treat us.
This is one of the most insane posts I have read here on the CDF.
Your solution to the healthcare cost problem is to let unlicensed medical practitioners treat sick people?
Thank you for reminding why it is that I think Libertarianism is a morally bankrupt crackpot political philosophy. Licensing laws for medical practitioners and drug regulation are in place precisely because of abuses that occurred in the past.
We have come too far as a people to ever go down that road again.
I have no health insurance at this time, I'd like to get some, but my health insurance was tied to my job that I lost 2+ years ago, I will be 60 in a few weeks and couldn't afford the COBRA. Even when I had a job and insurance, my monthly premiums were very high, my co-pays again very high along with skyrocketing perscription costs. So in the end I only saw the doc when I had to, doled out my Rx's to every other day sometimes.
I've now gone through my meager savings, I had no credit card debt and a very modest mortgage. I'm still not elegible for Medicad (no children).
Health insurance is tied to our jobs in this country, if we are unemployed most of us can't afford the COBRA and like me most have pre-existing so even IF we wanted a different healthcare option there isn't one.
From reading through this thread I see 2 types posting, one is those who make great money and are healthy and can afford their premiums and have never "tested" their health insurance and if they have, they've had enough bucks to pay off whatever happened. Unlike group 2, working class folks who struggle to pay their bills and skyrocketing medical premiums and many of these folks have now lost their jobs and their health care.
I fall into group 2 along with millions of people in this country we work very hard trying to find work, we are loosing everything because of this economy and healthcare is one of the big ones.
I have always been for universal health care, I consider health insurance companies inheriantly evil. I worked in the healthcare field for 20 years and watched them do everything to avoid paying legitimate claims, deny coverage and other offensive events.
You might take a look at the new insurance for uninsured people that's being rolled out now (started last week). The programs vary a lot from state to state - but a lot of states have websites now describing what is or what may be available. In those states that have opted out of the federal program - don't know exactly where one would go - but there's probably a website somewhere. I would get on this quickly - because it's almost inevitable that there will be lines and waiting lists. Robyn
I'll add my wife and I have no insurance. We are in our early 50s. She is ill and lost her job because of the illness, I lost my job because the company went chapter 7 and because of the chapter 7 this wonderful nation does not have COBRA coverage for those companies that go 7 or companies who have less than 22 employees, so beware everyone. My new employer's insurance coverage is $1600 per-month but will not cover my wife because of the lapse in coverage. I have no insurance because I've paid out of pocket for my wife's treatments this past 1.5 years leaving very little left over. The new pre-existing condition coverage is $14000 per year for my wife but again out of range because the State I live in does not provide this coverage the Fed does, jacking the rate too high for us. The State next door is half the cost because the State runs the program not the Fed. My wife has been battling Social Security for her SSDI coverage and has been a nightmare. What a wonderful life here in the States.
Do you have a lawyer handling the SSDI claim? If not - I'd get one yesterday (it's a very specialized difficult area). Robyn
I support universal health care. That being said, I think most people in the USA are not facing a number of realities. They are:
1. No matter what payment mechanism is used (public or private) health care costs are out of control.
2. We simply cannot sustain a healthcare system that increases costs at the rate of 10%+ per year ad infinitum.
3. At some point we are simply going to have to say "enough is enough" and not allow insurance to pay for some types of medical treatment. I would include in this list heroic measures to save people who are terminally ill, cancer drugs which statistically show they prolong life by only a few weeks, and organ transplants for the elderly.
4. Getting this system under control is not an option. Its a necessity. We have businesses literally going under because they can't afford the cost of health insurance for employees. Ford builds alot of cars in Canada because employee health care costs are much cheaper there than under the American medical system. Our current healthcare system is destroying our competitiveness as a nation.
5. The elderly are no more entitled than any other group in this country to get free medical care and Medicare is no more deserving of protection than any other federal program.
6. Finally, we can't just expect the free market to magically solve these problems. The free market system doesn't work well in the field of healthcare. Its a major reason every modern country in this world, but the US has adopted some form of universal healthcare.
Whether or not I support universal health care - the government doesn't give us much of a choice once we reach 65 (nor does the private market). Although there is a distinct possibility down the road that in addition to Medicare - my husband and I will be going back to fee for service medical care from our primary care providers (who are considering switching to no-insurance concierge practices).
I agree with all of your points - but would broaden the discussion to include heroic medical care for everyone regardless of age. In addition - I'd allow people to buy medical care for themselves if they choose to. My father is 92 - still in excellent health - and if he cares to spend his own money on things that Medicare won't cover for him - why not? What is he saving the money for - his old age ? There is of course precedent for this. We allow people to buy all kinds of medical care that insurance doesn't cover - especially cosmetic medical care. Doesn't make sense that someone's allowed to spend her own money on a b**b job but not on a breast cancer drug that isn't covered by Medicare. Robyn
I agree, let not name calling such "Communist" or "Socialist". Let talk about real solution to this real problem. How about having universal healthcare for all US citizens and legal residents.
We're the only developed country without universal healthcare and we are the only one who have to pay the most with 50 millions without coverage and rank lower than other developed countries in term of heathcare outcomes. We are also the only one who have serious healthcare problems. I hear no other countries talking about it.
I think you're wrong on 2 counts. First - we measure our healthcare outcomes differently than other countries (for example - many countries don't count a premature baby death as a "death" - while we do). So the statistics aren't necessarily comparable. Second - if you read a lot about health care - you'll read about things like disgraces in the NHS in the UK.
When people talk about universal health care (which I don't necessarily dismiss - because my husband is on Medicare now and I'll be on Medicare soon and that is really a form of universal health care - albeit for a limited age group) - I encourage them to read a whole lot about what is happening in other first world country systems. They have a lot of the same problems we do due to increasingly elderly populations - new medical technology - and - in many cases - large groups of immigrants that are considered "foreign". It's easy to be "universal" in a small European country when everyone you're paying for is at least a second cousin twice removed - a lot harder when more and more people are third world immigrants.
And - FWIW - I don't pay much attention to labels - whether it's socialist or communist or right wing or libertarian or whatever (because I happen to be a pretty pragmatic person). But the one thing that irks me is people from elsewhere always telling us what to do. As if everything in their countries is perfect - which is most certainly not the case. I get a fair amount of medical care at the Mayo Clinic JAX - and it has an international office that services people from all over the world with money who live in countries with "universal coverage". Don't reckon they'd be coming to Jacksonville FL if they could stay home and get the same standard of care. Robyn
Nor do I see USa willing to seek a proven solution from emulating one of the many countries who have done this successfully. I will bet there are many of our allies / enemies who could come in and rebuild our Healthcare from the ground up. Heaven knows we (USA politicians) can't put a band-aid on it, or even even perform minor surgery. OMG, not surgery by a USA politician!
It is one of many 'embarrassments' of living in the USA and doing international business. Citizens of other countries are amazed at the lack of PEOPLE POWER (and sense) within our country. During the financial crisis we were sitting on our hands watching the BoZo's on the tube, while other countries were in the streets demanding action. (Not that we need a 'revolution' or something .)
Give me 3 examples of countries that have done what you're talking about "successfully" (and define success while you're at it). Robyn
I guess you're not reading peoples lips: They cannot AFFORD it.
Your policy of $480/month is the equivalent of many peoples' entire salary for ONE WEEK. And your coverage isn't even all that good. On top of your $480 per month for ONE person only (not a family ), you have to pay 20% copays and the expenses that go along with a very high deductible. Get real! If you had a family, you'd be paying out of pocket at least half or more of your salary. Now add a layoff into that, and you can see the kind of trouble brewing in our wonderful "healthcare" industry.
So if that's the game, yes, somebody else other than the weary job holder has to pay. Maybe it's time for some of those ridiculous "healthcare" costs to come down.
Breaking news. Americans can't afford all the health care they want . Well if you can't afford something - what do you do? First thing is you cut back on frivolous things in favor of things you need (and a lot of health care falls into that category). I don't know how much the average family spends on things like cable TV and and cell phones and video games these days - but it's thousands of dollars. Apple (a company that makes a lot of discretionary toys) has the second largest market capitalization of any company in the world (Exxon Mobile is first). As much as people here villify insurance companies - their profit margins and market caps are garbage compared to Apple's.
I would like to try to work on solutions for people who - despite their best efforts - have fallen into a black hole in recent years. But they're a minority of the people who are whining these days. Indeed - many of the whiners are whining about things on their iPhones and/or their broadband internet service (both of which I consider to be luxuries - not necessities). IOW - I think people have to get their priorities straight. If someone values health care only when someone else is paying for it - because that person would rather spend his own money on toys - well I don't think the 50% of us still left paying income taxes in the US want to play that game.
And as for getting health care costs down - I agree with that. And we as consumers have to quit demanding the highest tech care every time we sprain an ankle. We'd never pay for an MRI out of pocket every time we had a minor injury - so why do people demand them for every minor thing when "someone else" is paying for it? Robyn
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? There is of course precedent for this. We allow people to buy all kinds of medical care that insurance doesn't cover - especially cosmetic medical care. Doesn't make sense that someone's allowed to spend her own money on a b**b job but not on a breast cancer drug that isn't covered by Medicare. Robyn
.)
They cannot AFFORD it.
. Well if you can't afford something - what do you do? First thing is you cut back on frivolous things in favor of things you need (and a lot of health care falls into that category). I don't know how much the average family spends on things like cable TV and and cell phones and video games these days - but it's thousands of dollars. Apple (a company that makes a lot of discretionary toys) has the second largest market capitalization of any company in the world (Exxon Mobile is first). As much as people here villify insurance companies - their profit margins and market caps are garbage compared to Apple's.
