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Out of pocket expenses go down in a single-payer system. I'm from Canada and have some experience with this.
I want my taxes to go up in order to provide medical coverage for everyone, in addition to improving our infrastructure, etc., yes. I want the income tax rate to remain progressive and revert to AT LEAST the levels in existence in the 1960's. I want tax loopholes for the wealthy to be closed and corporate welfare to end so that the wealthy can no longer tax-evade.
People in the US have slowly been conditioned to accept high deductibles, and those deductibles are getting higher each year. We are slowly drifting into a society of having only high deductible health insurance. (catastrophic type policies) because under the current system and high costs charged here in US, that is all we can afford now. Unless you work for Mega Corp. But slowly they will come under the strain of it all, and more and more people will recognize the problem when it hits their pockets in a more direct way.
They do not realize this is not the norm in other countries. Preventative care medicine is very important in other countries to prevent people, when possible, of developing expensive out of control health issues. People have been brainwashed into thinking that other progressive industrial countries
don't have all the high tech goodies we have here, or the level of care, and that is the reason our costs are so much higher than theirs.
This is a total falsehood. They have all the goodies. They just view healthcare as necessary for survival and are more compassionate about wanting their citizens to have access to it, so they don't allow hospitals and surgeons to charge $100,000 for an operation that can be done with sufficient profits for $25,000 or $35,000 as it is done in other countries. And I am talking about countries who enjoy an even higher standard of living than we do, And last I heard, those surgeons are living a pretty comfortable life style.
We can improve the supply chain (doctors and nurses) by government subsidies for their medical education. So no exorbitant medical school costs or after training debt. How many more people would enter the field if they could get through without the large cost factor? There are answers all around you. You just need to look past your own borders, and just for a moment, stop chanting USA, USA.
And in Canada they pay more in tax just to cover their "Free" medical then I do (percent) for ALL of our taxes--do you want your taxes to double or more??? It will cost FAR more then you are paying for your insurance and out of pocket costs...
I'm sure they pay a higher portion than we do however it's possible their priorities are better placed than ours where their citizens and their welfare is important, here in the US we have to feed the military industrial complex.
You said Medicare works great.....it doesn't.[/quote]
Again, how so? The problem isn't doctors accepting any new Medicare patients, it's doctors accepting ANY NEW patients. As I said, most doctors would not have a practice without Medicare, if they still managed to hang on they might be driving a 4 year old Camry instead of that year old BMW.
I love my Medicare!! With my F Medigap plan I pay ZERO medical expenses.
I'm sure they pay a higher portion than we do however it's possible their priorities are better placed than ours where their citizens and their welfare is important, here in the US we have to feed the military industrial complex.
You said Medicare works great.....it doesn't.
Quote:
Again, how so? The problem isn't doctors accepting any new Medicare patients, it's doctors accepting ANY NEW patients. As I said, most doctors would not have a practice without Medicare, if they still managed to hang on they might be driving a 4 year old Camry instead of that year old BMW.
I love my Medicare!! With my F Medigap plan I pay ZERO medical expenses.
and how much would you love it without your F? Original Medicare has high out of pocket costs and limited network of dr's. To GET Medicare to work they introduced the Supplement and MA plans...which equate to private insurance policies....
and how much would you love it without your F? Original Medicare has high out of pocket costs and limited network of dr's. To GET Medicare to work they introduced the Supplement and MA plans...which equate to private insurance policies....
I'm not sure how old you are Gofgal, and I'm not asking. But I think people love their medicare because before they reached Medicare age, insurance became downright unfordable for many, as you know it climbs very high as you get older, and by the time you reach 64, they want's to take your first born too.
So, even with having to buy a supplement policy, (which I agree can be expensive, plus Part D, and your other parts) your so happy to be covered. All together mine runs somewhat over $400 a month, which is $300 a month more than I thought it would run when I was younger. The only doctor problem that I have seen has been with the Primary Care doctors. There are not enough of them, so many after their practice gets totally full will refuse any new patients if they are Medicare, because they make more with the heavy duty policies. Depends on the area. Don't have that here where I am now, but when I was in Florida in an upscale area, my GP stopped taking new Medicare patients.
But, I have been through the wringer since I turned 66, and had all kinds of complications after my cancer treatment, and found out I could go to any hospital I wanted in the US, and get any specialist I wanted, so I feel very grateful, and think that is the experience most people have with regular Medicare combined with a supplement when something serious happens to them.
I know the Advantage programs have been more restrictive, and I can't speak to that, other than they are cheaper. So other than the GP shortage, as far as service and treatment options, and paying all of your medical bills, I think it has been very good. I agree without a supplement picking up that other 20%, you could get in deep dodo.
I'm not sure how old you are Gofgal, and I'm not asking. But I think people love their medicare because before they reached Medicare age, insurance became downright unfordable for many, as you know it climbs very high as you get older, and by the time you reach 64, they want's to take your first born too.
So, even with having to buy a supplement policy, (which I agree can be expensive, plus Part D, and your other parts) your so happy to be covered. All together mine runs somewhat over $400 a month, which is $300 a month more than I thought it would run when I was younger. The only doctor problem that I have seen has been with the Primary Care doctors. There are not enough of them, so many after their practice gets totally full will refuse any new patients if they are Medicare, because they make more with the heavy duty policies. Depends on the area. Don't have that here where I am now, but when I was in Florida in an upscale area, my GP stopped taking new Medicare patients.
But, I have been through the wringer since I turned 66, and had all kinds of complications after my cancer treatment, and found out I could go to any hospital I wanted in the US, and get any specialist I wanted, so I feel very grateful, and think that is the experience most people have with regular Medicare combined with a supplement when something serious happens to them.
I know the Advantage programs have been more restrictive, and I can't speak to that, other than they are cheaper. So other than the GP shortage, as far as service and treatment options, and paying all of your medical bills, I think it has been very good. I agree without a supplement picking up that other 20%, you could get in deep dodo.
Right--and the comment was that everyone should have Medicare because everyone is happy with Medicare because it works--original medicare, part A and B, does not work, it's expensive, not in premiums but out of pocket costs...with no caps on those costs. Thus, the advent of the Supplements and MA's. Supplements are expensive, but your out of pocket costs are little to nothing. MA's are like HMO's and are restrictive for networks. It's also not true that you can go to any doctor or hospital in the country, you can go to MOST, but not all doctors or hospitals contract with Medicare, especially if you just have original medicare. You obviously live in an area with a high retiree population if the medicare patients are supporting their practice, that is NOT the case everywhere, or even most places across the country. Just read the Medicare posts on this board alone at how people are having problems finding providers....it's not that they are "full" it's that they limit how many Medicare patients they take because they don't get paid well to take them.
So, in reality, Medicare does not work unless you buy the extra coverage, which, people can do now with health insurance plans if they want as well. It works out to be about the same thing.
One of your statements makes a mockery of itself.
" It's also not true that you can go to any doctor or hospital in the country, you can go to MOST"
I doubt anybody saying that meant literally any doctor.
You're nitpicking
And, BTW,......... "In all, the government said the number of physicians “who have agreed to accept Medicare” rose to 735,041 in 2013 from 705,568 in 2012." U.S. Says More Doctors Accept Medicare Patients, Access 'Excellent' - Forbes
The affordable part has been disagreed with earlier but this...... "Supplements are expensive but your out of pocket costs are little to nothing "
Plan N, in my area for 2014, costs $139 a month, the drug plan we've chosen is $12($315 deductible)
Plan N covers almost everything but foreign medical expenses and the B premium.
If one wants to take a chance on paying 50% of the covered skilled nursing home costs, you can pay $74.
For this population age group, you call that expensive?
Guess we have to go back to....everything is relative, huh?
One of your statements makes a mockery of itself.
" It's also not true that you can go to any doctor or hospital in the country, you can go to MOST"
I doubt anybody saying that meant literally any doctor.
You're nitpicking
And, BTW,......... "In all, the government said the number of physicians “who have agreed to accept Medicare†rose to 735,041 in 2013 from 705,568 in 2012." U.S. Says More Doctors Accept Medicare Patients, Access 'Excellent' - Forbes
The affordable part has been disagreed with earlier but this...... "Supplements are expensive but your out of pocket costs are little to nothing "
Plan N, in my area for 2014, costs $139 a month, the drug plan we've chosen is $12($315 deductible)
Plan N covers almost everything but foreign medical expenses and the B premium.
If one wants to take a chance on paying 50% of the covered skilled nursing home costs, you can pay $74.
For this population age group, you call that expensive?
Guess we have to go back to....everything is relative, huh?
Most is even an overstatement---especially if you have a MA..but whatever
Again, you are comparing apples to turnips. Yes, as I've said all along, A/B/D with a supplement is good...but ORIGINAL MEDICARE--just A/B is expensive for out of pocket costs...again, getting your supplement would be the same as someone under medicare age getting 2 insurance plans--say one through their employer and one through a spouses employer..your out of pocket costs are going to be low, but your premiums will cost you each month.
Most is even an overstatement---especially if you have a MA..but whatever
Again, you are comparing apples to turnips. Yes, as I've said all along, A/B/D with a supplement is good...but ORIGINAL MEDICARE--just A/B is expensive for out of pocket costs...again, getting your supplement would be the same as someone under medicare age getting 2 insurance plans--say one through their employer and one through a spouses employer..your out of pocket costs are going to be low, but your premiums will cost you each month.
You keep talking about original Medicare so mentioning Advantage plans is beside the point.
And what is considered expensive is up for grabs ...as mentioned before...you don't seem to think $6000(plus premiums) is bad for young healthy people but used $10,000 as horrendous for an old geezer without a supplement.
For this thread, I certainly don't agree with "Medicare for all" but do disagree that....and again...considering the age group and likelihood of use...it is not expensive.
(I do think those with the bigger likelihood of use should pay more, even though I don't think of Medicare as anything but low cost...including the new lucky ones coming on that don't have to.)
I'm not sure how old you are Gofgal, and I'm not asking. But I think people love their medicare because before they reached Medicare age, insurance became downright unfordable for many, as you know it climbs very high as you get older, and by the time you reach 64, they want's to take your first born too.
So, even with having to buy a supplement policy, (which I agree can be expensive, plus Part D, and your other parts) your so happy to be covered. All together mine runs somewhat over $400 a month, which is $300 a month more than I thought it would run when I was younger. The only doctor problem that I have seen has been with the Primary Care doctors. There are not enough of them, so many after their practice gets totally full will refuse any new patients if they are Medicare, because they make more with the heavy duty policies. Depends on the area. Don't have that here where I am now, but when I was in Florida in an upscale area, my GP stopped taking new Medicare patients.
But, I have been through the wringer since I turned 66, and had all kinds of complications after my cancer treatment, and found out I could go to any hospital I wanted in the US, and get any specialist I wanted, so I feel very grateful, and think that is the experience most people have with regular Medicare combined with a supplement when something serious happens to them.
I know the Advantage programs have been more restrictive, and I can't speak to that, other than they are cheaper. So other than the GP shortage, as far as service and treatment options, and paying all of your medical bills, I think it has been very good. I agree without a supplement picking up that other 20%, you could get in deep dodo.
My thought was that Medicare would be modified to be comprehensive, similar to OHIP.
The greed-based health care system in the U.S. has to be terminated. Of course, this is dependent on whom voters put in to office; thus progressive voters have to turn out at every election. Stopping voter suppression will help.
You keep talking about original Medicare so mentioning Advantage plans is beside the point.
And what is considered expensive is up for grabs ...as mentioned before...you don't seem to think $6000(plus premiums) is bad for young healthy people but used $10,000 as horrendous for an old geezer without a supplement.
For this thread, I certainly don't agree with "Medicare for all" but do disagree that....and again...considering the age group and likelihood of use...it is not expensive.
(I do think those with the bigger likelihood of use should pay more, even though I don't think of Medicare as anything but low cost...including the new lucky ones coming on that don't have to.)
$6000 in relation to a Health Savings account, where you get to deduct contributions to that account from your taxes, netting you about $2500+ off your taxes, depending on your tax bracket...plus the obvious that young people don't usually hit their out of pocket max were older people tend to more often...so yes, hitting $10K over several years IS more expensive....and in my Dad's case the actual number would have been closer to $30K or more because there is no cap on out of pocket costs on original medicare like there would be on a plan with $6000 out of pocket max....
Again, ORIGINAL Medicare is not low cost...unless you never go to the dr...but the same would be true for just about any health insurance plan.....
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