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You are choosing Cuba to compare us to? Maybe you didn't get the jest of the movie. It was EVEN Cuba has universal health care for all it's citizens. Even our prisoners in Guantanamo get full health care. (Which would compare favorably for our 49,000,000 without insurance health care.) Did you watch the rest of the movie? What about France and England, Germany and Switzerland? How about some of the other documentaries I posted?
Yes - the movie was in jest <rofl>.
And I'm starting to think that not only do you have a serious validation bias (you just read stuff you agree with) - but you don't know what's going on. The United States provides health care for Guantanamo prisoners with US personnel - not the Cuban government:
Now whether we should provide good health care to these prisoners is another issue. But we the taxpayers in the US provide health care for them - not the Cubans.
Also - you've lived in Florida - but I don't know what part. Having lived in Miami for 20+ years - and having known many Cubans with family still in Cuba - well they were always sending/taking "care packages" to family when they could. Everything from bags of rice to Tampax. Because you can't get feminine hygiene products like Tampax in Cuba (many women still use rags for "that time of month"). So you expect great health care in a country where you can't buy Tampax? Keep dreaming. Robyn
Can I just add to Robyn's comments that the filmmakers also visit other countries with Universal Healthcare - Canada, UK and France. Michael Moore visits hospitals, interviews staff and patients (including Americans who are now living in these countries) and finds to his astonishment, how happy folk generally are with their healthcare system..
Robyn (and everyone else who has an open mind and who are willing to accept that they aren't being told the whole truth by those they entrust with their healthcare needs ) I would urge you to watch the links posted on Modhatter's last post. Two words..Simply outrageous .
Canada and the UK have issues with rationing/access. France has issues with excessively high taxes (judging from the recent demonstrations).
I realize there are issues with the health care delivery system in the US - but all first world countries outside the US are having issues too. People are getting older and sicker. And more expensive technologies - when paid for by any entity - are busting the bank. And - if you deny that - you're just another person who's into "validation journalism". And someone who's not taking a hard look at a big problem.
It's like the guy from Canada who posted recently and thought everyone in Canada is treated equally. Fat chance! Robyn
Canada is a one tier system. No favoritism for the rich. So it stands to reason, especially since they are or neighbors, anyone who can afford to jump to the front of the line, and on their schedule, not someone else's - will. No one will ever argue that the rich will always get better service when they want it. In ANY country.
But when's the last time you saw a President of the US - the equivalent of the PM of Canada - leave the US to get health care - on the equivalent of Air Force One no less! And if these politicians - whose actions are scrutinized by the press on a regular basis - fear/dislike/don't trust the health care system in Canada so much that they're willing to risk their bids for re-election by coming to the US for health care (there's a lot of political blow back when they do this) - what do you think ordinary people who don't receive press scrutiny do?
IMO - if you hate dislike/hate your country - for whatever reason - or it doesn't work for you financially - leave. My husband and I were ready to do that during the Vietnam War (sorry Wardendresden - I recall you fought in that war but we thought it was a dumb war - and wouldn't risk my husband's life over it - doesn't mean we don't support veterans now - but supporting veterans with our tax dollars now is different than risking your life back then).
Life is too short to spend all of it bitching about whatever. So where are you going to go? Robyn
ETA - If you had actually watched thew film before commenting, you would realize that the point is, in spite of everything you just said, Americans are STILL choosing to go there for care for lack of any other better option in the States
Americans are choosing to go where outside the US? Robyn
I have seen the way that Canada operates it's medical system and I was not impressed in the least. The doctors that I came into contact with were sub-par, and tests and treatments that would have taken days or weeks in the United States took MONTHS in Canada.
Say what you want, but the government will *never* be as good, fast or efficient as the private sector.
I am in the healthcare industry and I can tell you that we have the best in the world right here in the USA. We spend more money than any other nation to keep our elderly alive and well.The fact is that what we spend is the same in modern nations untill age 65. After that those nations spend far less while we spend more.
The movie wants you to think that a third world nation has much better care than we have here. Cuba is so far behind in medicine. We have Doctors here in our area that donate time and resouces to the people of Cuba and I can tell you that they are no where near where we are when it comes to medicine. The fact is that we and many other hospitals donate used equipment, beds, surplus medical supplies to other nations around the globe and the people there are happy to get it.
Is there a problem in the insurance industry? I am betting there is. Is Obama care the answer? Not in this nation. Never in the history of this nation has a nationalized industry worked as well as a private industry. The post office is loosing money but every other delivery service is booming. The Government sees a way to take over a profitable enterprise and take controll of it. The problem is that it is not profitable in and of itself. Turning healthcare over to the goverment will hinder the industry and slowly place us into a status that will eventually approach Cuba's failing system. Inovation will die as someone will tell we the peope that the money is not available to perform new and untested procedures.
Such arrogance. So distasteful. Not to mention complete codswallop.
I didn't watch any of the movie. Mr. Moore has a way of not getting the facts correct. I am telling you that we have the best healthcare in the world. I don't have to compare Cuba, it was done by others here in this thread as well as within the movie. It was also pointed out by at least one individual that Fidel Castro chose to go somewhere else to get care because Cuba could not offer him what he needed. Of the first world nations that you quoted such as England, Germand, ect we all spend about the same on average for healthcare untill a person is in their mid 60's and older, then the USA surpasses all other nations in spending. As a hospital we can not turn anyone away for assitance. We have to offer them help regardless of their ability to pay. Many that don't have the money for insurance or the ability to pay more than likely can get help from medicare allready. Those people are taken care of without the need to change the system.
Oh my freakin' GAWD!!!!
Last edited by healthcarefirst; 11-13-2013 at 05:45 PM..
Such arrogance. So distasteful. Not to mention complete codswallop.
Which means you don't care to answer anything on a substantive basis. You think the US sucks - GO HOME. Is a swimming pool worth more than your health care (apparently yes in your case).
BTW - having traveled in many other countries - even if there were things I didn't like about those countries - I kept my mouth shut - because I was a guest in those places. You apparently Sir have no similar qualms. You suck out of this country what pleases you - like your frigging swimming pool - and your salary - and your low taxes - and then **** on whatever you don't like. Like I said - you don't like it here - GO HOME. Robyn
Canada and the UK have issues with rationing/access. France has issues with excessively high taxes (judging from the recent demonstrations).
I realize there are issues with the health care delivery system in the US - but all first world countries outside the US are having issues too. People are getting older and sicker. And more expensive technologies - when paid for by any entity - are busting the bank. And - if you deny that - you're just another person who's into "validation journalism". And someone who's not taking a hard look at a big problem.
It's like the guy from Canada who posted recently and thought everyone in Canada is treated equally. Fat chance! Robyn
At what point in any of my posts did I infer the UK NHS System is without issues ???
Which means you don't care to answer anything on a substantive basis. You think the US sucks - GO HOME. Is a swimming pool worth more than your health care (apparently yes in your case).
BTW - having traveled in many other countries - even if there were things I didn't like about those countries - I kept my mouth shut - because I was a guest in those places. You apparently Sir have no similar qualms. You suck out of this country what pleases you - like your frigging swimming pool - and your salary - and your low taxes - and then **** on whatever you don't like. Like I said - you don't like it here - GO HOME. Robyn
I am aware that I am a guest here and as an educated person I am sensitive to those facts, of course I am. Indeed regardless of what you think I am considered a welcome addition amongst my co-workers and friends and I will continue to make valuable contributions to the provision of good quality healthcare where I can. I am also striving to improve professional working conditions for employees.
We are on a discussion forum where healthcare reform is being debated and argued and it seems ANYTHING GOES in regards to making derogatory, snidey, nasty comments (and some from yourself might I add) . I figure I can at least have my say because it's based on years of actual experience in BOTH systems and it's not just an endless stream of articles and web links. It seems you have one rule for yourself Robyn and a different rule for those who are disagreeing with your opinions. I guess Freedom of Speech here is only acceptable if you were born and bred in the USA huh?
You had a real go at my own country. I have done no such thing with yours, other than putting in my tuppence worth about healthcare. In referring to my previous posts, I have said many times that the US is a great country with great people, the one thing letting it down is healthcare for all. I have not referred to anything else in my posts that I dislike or disagree with here, and when I hear derogatory comments about "those Americans" from other Europeans, I am the first to defend you.
PS. You live and learn. You are right. Perhaps the swimming pool isn't worth it at the end of the day. I am inevitably learning.
Last edited by healthcarefirst; 11-13-2013 at 05:55 PM..
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