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This person I'm talking about is better shape then most of people on here when comes to health wise and also this person twenty years ago got into trouble for Social Security for Fraud and had to pay it all back.
If you belive this person is engaged in a fraud against Social Security Disability (meaning us taxpayers), instead of wondering, why not just report it and let them investigate? If there is nothing wrong, life goes on, but if there is fraud they will take care of it. Report Fraud, Waste, or Abuse | Office of the Inspector General, SSA
We I looked into for friend with mental health issues I found that after navigating through a mess she would get about 1k per month and you can make up to 1k per month, go over 1k and you lose your SSDI so people at NAMI have told me people have had to leave their jobs come back for fear of losing their SSDI.
This person has been told by his doctor's he cann't lift anything over 10 pounds and he uses a gas weedeater and even chops fire wood for business.
Oh wow, wonder where he found a gas weedeater weighing less than 10 lbs, and manages to chop firewood without wielding an equivalent of 10 lbs while he does it?
He's not alone. I know of folks who were on disability for alleged back problems who worked construction, including bending over and lifting concrete blocks, roofing, and gardening.
Then there's the lady I know who's been on disability, food stamps and Section 8 housing for years, and who cleans houses to earn money.
Unfortunately, disability is a complete contradiction. On one hand they say it should only be awarded to individuals who can not hold any job down due to their disability. On the other hand, they realize no one on disability can live on $1,000, so they say they can partake in a job and earn up to $1,000 more.
It is government's way of not having to pay someone on disability a living wage, while breaking their own rules.
I think levels of disability would be a better idea. There are those who are severely disabled and totally incapable of even daily functions alone. They would be level 1 of course. Level 2 and 3 could be designated to those who are able to function some of the time in some capacity but not considered employable by corporations that require daily timely attendance.
They could be provided with a computer if they don't already own one, and given some sort of government work to perform at home from their computer and paid for their work or even piece work where they might assemble or package things. On bad days they work less and on good days they work more. There are a multiple of job opportunities that can be performed from home.
Heck, corporations could join a government organization to help in employing the partially handicapped at home and be given some tax credits for joining. We could even have quarterly or bi-yearly training seminars offered to teach individuals in their chosen field depending on their abilities. I'm talking maybe a two week or monthly training seminar. Heck, even some of the level 3 disabled could do the training periodically. There are better solutions than are out there now to weed out the fakers from the deserving. In fact for those who are not permanently disabled, who prove to be good workers could morph into a permanent job with the company on a more full time bases when they recover.
We have a supermarket chain where I reside part of the year in Florida called Publics that hires the mentally handicapped as bagers and to help patrons out to their car with groceries. We all know they are handicapped, but most customers feel good about the companies policy to employ them and admire them for doing it. I often talk with them going out to my car and they are really pleased to have a job and very proud of the money they earn.
Last edited by modhatter; 07-12-2014 at 10:09 AM..
Just as SS retirement was never designed to be a persons full income, SSDI also was not designed to be the full income of a disabled person. Unfortunately, it often is, because people don't save enough for this possibility. There IS a sort of paradox in the system in that, to first become eligible for SSDI, one cannot be able to work or be expected to be able to work for at least a year after the disability period starts, yet, after SSDI is awarded, the system tries to encourage people with disabilities to return to work in some capacity. There have been many law changes to try to give SSDI recipients incentive for returning to work, including the SGA determinations (Substantial Gainful Employment), trial work periods, allowing the disabled person to keep their medicaid or medicare, the annual calculations of allowed amounts of earned income, credits against earned income for expenses that help the disabled person work, such as special transportation, medications, etc. These rules have been put into place because very few people return to full time work after receiving SSDI. Part of the reason disabled people dont return to work full time, is often because they CAN'T. Their disability prevents them from exertion, either mental or physical, or it allows them to do some activities but not others. Another reason disabled people often do not return to work has historically been because employers were afraid to hire people with disabilities, thinking that their insurance rates would go very high, or that the person would need too many accommodations, etc.
Unfortunately, as with all sorts of things, people who commit Social Security fraud are not easily caught. Sometimes the person legitimately was disabled at one time, but later is not, and they do not try to return to work for various reasons. Others keep less than ethical attorneys and medical/chiropractic practitioners in business by milking a personal injury claim at first, then later receive disability because they have these same people working on their "behalf" in keeping them disabled.
If the OP truly thinks the person he is speaking of is committing fraud, he/she should report it. More than likely the person is already being investigated.
As far as modhatter's idea to put people in various "levels" of disability, that has been tried with many disabled individuals. The problem is, it doesn't work. People with disabilities are as individual as those without. A person with Downs Syndrome may have totally different abilities than another person with Down's Syndrome. Two people who use wheelchairs will have very different skills. People with mental illness are very different as well. That kind of categorization just doesnt accomplish much in reality.
There are MANY programs, services out there for people with disabilities to help them return to work or volunteer. I know, because I was in the rehabilitation field for 30 years, and I am now disabled (and working part time) myself.
Hope this sheds some light on people with disabilities. There are many many people with "invisible" disabilities out there, some whose disabling conditions improve and return again, some who have lifelong conditions, some who are terminally ill, and, unfortunately there are also always going to be those who work the system.
Just as SS retirement was never designed to be a persons full income, SSDI also was not designed to be the full income of a disabled person. Unfortunately, it often is, because people don't save enough for this possibility. There IS a sort of paradox in the system in that, to first become eligible for SSDI, one cannot be able to work or be expected to be able to work for at least a year after the disability period starts, yet, after SSDI is awarded, the system tries to encourage people with disabilities to return to work in some capacity. There have been many law changes to try to give SSDI recipients incentive for returning to work, including the SGA determinations (Substantial Gainful Employment), trial work periods, allowing the disabled person to keep their medicaid or medicare, the annual calculations of allowed amounts of earned income, credits against earned income for expenses that help the disabled person work, such as special transportation, medications, etc. These rules have been put into place because very few people return to full time work after receiving SSDI. Part of the reason disabled people dont return to work full time, is often because they CAN'T. Their disability prevents them from exertion, either mental or physical, or it allows them to do some activities but not others. Another reason disabled people often do not return to work has historically been because employers were afraid to hire people with disabilities, thinking that their insurance rates would go very high, or that the person would need too many accommodations, etc.
Unfortunately, as with all sorts of things, people who commit Social Security fraud are not easily caught. Sometimes the person legitimately was disabled at one time, but later is not, and they do not try to return to work for various reasons. Others keep less than ethical attorneys and medical/chiropractic practitioners in business by milking a personal injury claim at first, then later receive disability because they have these same people working on their "behalf" in keeping them disabled.
If the OP truly thinks the person he is speaking of is committing fraud, he/she should report it. More than likely the person is already being investigated.
As far as modhatter's idea to put people in various "levels" of disability, that has been tried with many disabled individuals. The problem is, it doesn't work. People with disabilities are as individual as those without. A person with Downs Syndrome may have totally different abilities than another person with Down's Syndrome. Two people who use wheelchairs will have very different skills. People with mental illness are very different as well. That kind of categorization just doesnt accomplish much in reality.
There are MANY programs, services out there for people with disabilities to help them return to work or volunteer. I know, because I was in the rehabilitation field for 30 years, and I am now disabled (and working part time) myself.
Hope this sheds some light on people with disabilities. There are many many people with "invisible" disabilities out there, some whose disabling conditions improve and return again, some who have lifelong conditions, some who are terminally ill, and, unfortunately there are also always going to be those who work the system.
I do understand the difficulty in this benefit arena. And I agree with your assessment of determining levels of sickness. I am very familiar with mental illness so I know the wide variance in this illness. When I was speaking of levels, I was thinking more of ability levels which allows for differences in your sickness level whatever it might be. From my most recent understanding, it is estimated that at least 30% of disability claims are fraudulent. This makes it really hard for the people who really deserve to be awarded benefits receive them in a timely manner.
I have a brother who is severely mentally handicapped and can not function on his own. I have a sister who has a genuine back problem and can't stand or sit up straight for any length of time without it hurting a lot. But she can tolerate semi-upright positions in bed and can easily read and use the computer in bed, with the help of a bed table which I sent her. She can take walks, does light housekeeping and shopping for limited periods etc. (I have a very similar back problem) She has all of her faculties, and a well paid skill that she could use at home (in my opinion of course) and do from the comfort of her bed. But she claims she can not.
I believe I have seen both sides to it. I ran a number of retail stores for over 30 years, and I have experienced my share of phony workman's comp claims and phony slip and falls in my stores from both employees and customers. I had an old manager who's husband was supposedly disabled and couldn't walk due to terrible pain. He cleaned out a large storage locker of mine and helped me move several times. Yes, this is the ugly side of it, and I would like to see it cleaned up in some manner as to make it easier for people who are truly in need.
I don't know if what I propose is realistic or not. I am not familiar with our government ever trying out anything like what I was proposing. Not that it means that they haven't.
I am not a hard nose. If you read my posts you know I belong to the Left of the isle and would like to see every deserving hurting person receive the help they need. But in addition to my soft side, I have a strong disdain for those who try and gain the system, and consequently I am always thinking of possible solutions and ways to lessen the government's financial load.
Last edited by modhatter; 07-12-2014 at 08:47 PM..
People making fraudulent claims are not going to be "cleaned up." I am sure of that. There will always be people who do this. Many of those who make fraudulent workers compensation or personal injury claims are eventually caught. The Social Security Disability examining system is much more comprehensive and thorough in determining actual disability than the workers comp and personal injury systems. (I have worked in all three). The estimate of 30% of claims being fraudulent is interesting, because that is about what I saw when dealing with workers comp and personal injury. However, I did NOT see that with Social Security. Yes, the govt disability system does contribute to it taking longer for people who deserve to be awarded benefits on a timely basis. But as a taxpayer I would rather see that than the other way around.
I also am left of the isle and realize modhatter is too. If you really want to explore those who gain the system, look into bogus personal injury lawsuits and workers comp claims, because that is where alot of the fraudulent Social Security Disability recipients start their game, with the help of unethical attorneys and medical/chiropractic personnel. Its not the developmentally disabled individuals, those who have mental illness, those with chronic disease, and its not the MAJORITY of those who have a physically disabling accident. Its mostly those few who have discovered that a quick way to money is to fake an accident in the workplace or via a car accident. So, to sum up--sorry to say, but they are never going away. We best can hope that others will catch and report them, like the OP.
Listen up here, I am new, my second post and I think I have some light to shed, especially to Modhatter. I am a lot like your sister. Accept I also have serious pelvic adhesions and I have pain with digestions/bowel movements and my back and leg problems are worsening. I am spending anything left over on my co-pays for treatments, which just about every single one this year has not helped and some have caused me horrible side effects, one doctor asked me to call a pysch, but meanwhile people on other forums validated it as a side effect for some. I am very sensitive to pharma/drugs. My Neuro and OBGYN say I will get my old life back, I am in my 30's after all, but after this last surgery I do not share their hope and frankly I have had that hope and it has only caused more mental problems for me.
Your sister who is able to sit up somewhat and use a computer, just like I am right now, probably has to take pain medications. These medications ********* up with both comprehension, memory and ability to type out accurately. Have you ever thought that may be why she cannot find at home work???
I WISH I could find at home supplemental income, btw, to my knowledge I am allowed to make up to about $720 w/o loosing my benefits (not $1k like others state here, although that is correct if you are blind). If someone here could refer me to any at home computer positions where there is simply a weekly deadline (where I can make time and be in extra pain to accomplish with a clear) I would really appreciate it. I do not have a degree, simply H/S diploma, but before I became disabled, from a horrible 1st time surgery while making six figures, I worked my butt off, working harder than any of my peers because I knew I had to to compensate for my lack of degree and to keep climbing the corporate ladder, I was in finance(and marketing) and can perform basic admin/accounting/office work. But I left in 2006, thinks sure have changed.
I also have a question regarding how employers not hiring disabled people. How can they find out that you are on disability? Is this why 2/3 temp agencies I joined never responded to my requests or found me work? When I signed up do they somehow find out I am on ssdi? Or is my personality that $hitty or lack of degree a problem?
Nicole
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