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Long waits. If you are injured in a vehicle accident, and arrive at the ER with a EMS crew, you are going to be a "first priority " and treated right away.......If you show up walking and talking, with a broken finger, you will have your vitals taken, and a x ray, and the fracture will be set. Of the two examples above, which one do you think should get "priority " ?
Long waits to see a specialist ? If you live in a big city in Canada, and your condition is not life threatening , it will be a few weeks, to a month. On the other hand, if it is a condition that IS life threatening, it will be a lot sooner, as in that day. If you live in a small place, away from a city, you may be seen "remotely " through a internet consultation with a specialist . That allows your local MD to present your case, symptoms, and history to the other MD live. All of your pertinent tests, and important details have been forwarded by electronic means before hand.
If the specialist and your own MD agree that you need to come to the hospital that he/she practices at, you will be eligible for "travel compensation " that may include a road ambulance journey, or if the distance is great, a air trip, Both methods are covered by your Provincial health care service, at no cost to you.Here in Ontario, the Provincial Ambulance service has a fleet of both helicopters and fixed wing aircraft, that cover the entire Province. They are staffed by air paramedics.
Rationed care ? BOGUS argument.
Specifics. My Mother, at age 89, needed a heart pacemaker. Once diagnosed by her Cardiologist , she had it with in 3 days. Cost to her, zero.
Next door neighbour. Age 78, fell and broke her hip. EMS were there in under 10 minutes, treated her injury, transported her to hospital. She was there for 3 days, them spent 6 weeks in a rehab centre. She is back home , gardening and attending church, as before. Cost to her. Zero.
While we are at it.......Death panels. No such thing in Canada. Your care is between YOU and your MD, with no Government control at all.
In our Parliament right now, there is debate about a proposed "right to die at a time of your choosing " bill. It would allow those who are " dying of a incurable disease " , to be helped to die by a MD who is willing to assist the patient. Some of the restrictions would be , you must be over the age of 18, mentally able to give informed consent, and the diagnosis is agreed to be true by at least three MD's. Recent polls have shown that this is a law change that the vast majority of Canadians support. It is not yet law here.
Politically speaking Canada is a much more progressive society than the US is. What do I mean ? Social programs that benefit everyone, not just the wealthy. Education past high school is financially assisted, with the result that as a nation we have more University graduates, on a per capita basis than any other country in the world. Paid maternity leave of up to a year. Retraining for the unemployed for up to two years, with support payments to replace their lost income. Treating drug addiction as a medical problem not a criminal problem.
Here are the latest figures that I can find, re how much a single adult with no dependants, will pay for health care in Canada, versus the USA.
Canada. Here is a breakdown of total yearly expenses, for years 2013 and 2014. The line for "health care " shows 2103 as $2475, and 2014, as $2251. That is for a single adult. A family of 4 would be about twice that amount yearly.
link. This information is from Stats Canada, the Federal Government's statistical department.
US. Using the search phrase " How much does the average single American pay for health care per year " I found this article. It shows a annual cost to a individual American as $3444 per year, and a family as $8724. So on the basis of those raw numbers the individual Canadian pays about a thousand dollars a year less than their American counterpart, and the US family pays more than the average Canadian family pays. The average Canadian family of 4 pays between $3500, and $11, 000 per year, depending on their income levels. The US family pays $8724, PLUS copays, and deductibles , which the Canadian family does not pay.
I just found a recent NBC news article with more up to date figures. It shows a total family health care cost at over $16,000 a year. That is for premiums, and of course copays and deductibles are extra, above that figure.
I just about spewed coffee all over my computer screen when I saw your numbers for a single Canadian adult at fifteen thousand dollars a year. That is what we pay those collecting welfare here.
Reality. Stats Canada Canadian annual income.
link. 2013. average Canadian family gross income, $76 550. Single individual gross $22, 800.
The latest accurate figure that I could find was this......In 2015, the average Canadian adult paid $3902 towards health care , according to Stats Canada's website. Given that the average single Canadian adult's gross income in that year was $45,788, that works out to around 8 percent of their gross income.
By comparison the 2015 individual single persons' gross income in the USA was $28,444. Source is US census.
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian citizen
Saibot.
I just about spewed coffee all over my computer screen when I saw your numbers for a single Canadian adult at fifteen thousand dollars a year. That is what we pay those collecting welfare here.
link. 2013. average Canadian family gross income, $76 550. Single individual gross $22, 800.
They weren't "my" numbers...I simply copied and pasted from the Gallup website. Take it up with Gallup!
But now I am truly confused, because your first post here says the average single Canadian's income is $45,788 (that was the fairly enormous number that first caught my attention) and the second says $22,800, which is reasonable.
It certainly does make a difference, because your statement that a single Canadian pays about 8% of income toward health care is true if the average income is $45k but not at all true if it is $22k. In that case, the individual is paying 17% of income toward health care.
Here are the latest figures that I can find, re how much a single adult with no dependants, will pay for health care in Canada, versus the USA.
Canada. Here is a breakdown of total yearly expenses, for years 2013 and 2014. The line for "health care " shows 2103 as $2475, and 2014, as $2251. That is for a single adult. A family of 4 would be about twice that amount yearly.
The average Canadian family of 4 pays between $3500, and $11, 000 per year, depending on their income levels.
The US family pays $8724, PLUS copays, and deductibles , which the Canadian family does not pay.
I just found a recent NBC news article with more up to date figures. It shows a total family health care cost at over $16,000 a year. That is for premiums, and of course copays and deductibles are extra, above that figure.
On what are Canadians spending the $2,251/$3,500-$11,000? Services not covered by the Canadian health care system? I assume this does not reflect the taxes for health coverage already paid by Canadians - or does it?
It's really hard to get an accurate fix on the true cost - because Canada taxes its citizens for premiums which in the US are paid by employer and/or individual - and vary widely.
In the US, costs are:
$???? - Premium
$???? - Deductible
$???? - Copays/coinsurance
$???? - Services/items not covered by insurance
In Canada, costs are:
$???? - Taxes paid for Canadian insurance - i.e., premium
$000 - Deductible
$000 - Copays/coinsurance
$???? - Services/items not covered by insurance
At the end of the day, Canadians walk out of the hospital knowing they aren't going to be stuck with in-network/out-of-network balance billing issues on TOP of already very high premiums - which is the American experience.
Employer-subsidized insurance in the US is still affordable - in some cases just barely. Individual policies not so much. Doctors and patients alike are saying it's insurance patients can't use. Inflated premium plus deductible - which, after paying premium, people can't afford - makes it, in reality, noninsurance for many.
$14,867 - Taxes (includes health insurance/retirement (i.e. FICA)) $x2,250 - Health Care $17,117 - Total Costs - Taxes/Health Care
US family of 4 earning $80k w/employer-subsidized insurance pays:
$x6,120 - FICA Taxes (SS - similar to Canadian pension)
$x4,790 - Federal Income Taxes (includes $2k child tax credit)
$x6,000 - Employer subsidized health insurance (low) $x2,500 - Deductible, miscellaneous cost (low)
$19,410 - Total Costs - Taxes/Health Care
US citizen w/employer insurance pays about $2k a year more - plus still has exposure to balance billing and max-out-of-pocket issues.
For the US family forced to buy privately or on the ACA, their costs would look more like this:
$x6,120 - FICA Taxes
$x4,790 - Federal Income Taxes
$x8,000 - ACA subsidized premium national average $x6,000 - Deductible (maximum out-of-pocket up to $13,700) $24,910 - Total Costs - Taxes/Health Care
That is at least a $7,800/year difference for those not covered by an employer. And, the American still has another almost $8k balance billing and max out-of-pocket exposure.
Last edited by Ariadne22; 05-12-2016 at 02:20 PM..
$1,087 per month (had about a 10% increase this year) We're self-employed and pay 100% of our premium. No Deductible plan. Co-Pays ranging from $25-40, more for things like MRI's, Scans, etc.
I just about spewed coffee all over my computer screen when I saw your numbers for a single Canadian adult at fifteen thousand dollars a year. That is what we pay those collecting welfare here.
Jim B.
Jim,
One thing you have probably learned about my fellow countrymen. Most of them have no clue about how the health care systems work in the rest of the civilized world. They only know what they see and hear in the media. The older generation of Americans have a built in aversion to "socialized" medicine because that word is easily tied to "communism".
Like you, being a retired member of our armed forces, I had the opportunity to be stationed all over the world. My experiences with the health care systems of both European and Asian countries is the exact opposite of most of what you read here.
I have socialized medicine, Tricare, for my military service. Everyone that is on medicare also has socialized medicine whether they chose to call it that or not.
I would gladly take the health care systems of Germany, Britain, Canada, Spain, France, etc any day of the week and twice on Sunday. But the key, fundamental difference is that all of those countries see health care as a right not a privilege.
When every one talks socialized or single payer system, 95% of their attitude is political, not based on facts. That is why systems in Canada, Europe, Cuba, Asia and other places are so misunderstood and why so much emphasis is placed on finding faults in those systems instead of their positive aspects. Yet, the USA's two largest health care systems have one that is socialized and the other as a single payer system; the very systems those who oppose socialized or single payer system use, demand and will fight to their death to protect and keep!
In the United States, the largest health care provider is also the largest socialized health care system. The US Department of Veteran Affair's health care system is a true socialized health care system (paid for by the government through taxes on everyone and owned and operated by that same government).
In the United States, the largest single payer health care system is Medicare. (It is not socialized medicine) Medicare is paid through governement taxes on everyone to fund a system that includes every qyulaifed individual. The adminitsrator of this ystem is the United Sytayes Governement. The administrator does nto own the faciltiy nor are the rpoviders emplyees of the governement.
$10 per month thru work for Medical (Plan costs $400 per month but work covers $390 of that)
$8.50 for Dental (work covers 85% of the cost)
$22 a month for $75 in life insurance which comes with a D&D Policy which covers up to $5000 of any accident. Meaning any medical care related to that.
$2.25 per month for the three of usLife flight medical helicopter insurance (one flight per year)
--------------
$43.25
No deductibles, the co pay for almost everything is $10. Drugs are usually $5 but can be $10. Hospital stays are only covered at $250 per day. Only $250 for ambulance hence buying the life flight membership. Rarely do I need to shell out an extra $20. THERE is only $2000 a year built in for any kind of catastrophic insurance, this same $2000 can be used for dental care, tests such as MRI's, Cat Scans, expensive stuff but you must say it is related to an accident. They are VERY lenient on this $2000 being used for almost anything. Yet If you want the up to $10,000 once a year, it must really be an accident.
Personally I think it''s a steal of a bargain. Called an Indemnity plan.
The dental is very good for $8.50 a month. I ended up hospitalized, it wouldn't cover much unless it was an accident and $10,000 doesn't go far when you're hospitalized.
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) We're self-employed and pay 100% of our premium. No Deductible plan. Co-Pays ranging from $25-40, more for things like MRI's, Scans, etc.
