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Old 11-15-2016, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
25,591 posts, read 56,367,459 times
Reputation: 23297

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Quote:
Originally Posted by genesiss23 View Post
We really need to end employer based primary health insurance. I'm not saying single payer but this system of people being upon work for such an essential product has to end. No other insurance product is sold this way. Health insurance adds so much cost to the American employer that they have problems competing in the marketplace.
And, how would the average worker afford insurance if his employer can't? Are the employers going to be giving everyone big raises to purchase on the open market?

Ryan wants to end govt-funded insurance aka Medicare, give seniors vouchers, and throw them on the mercy of the private insurers.

Beware what you wish for.
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Old 11-17-2016, 06:57 AM
 
Location: So Ca
26,659 posts, read 26,633,915 times
Reputation: 24712
Quote:
Originally Posted by genesiss23 View Post
We really need to end employer based primary health insurance.
One of the issues that the ACA was supposed to address was that of health care being tied to employment. It's probably too late to speculate about how and why that didn't work out.
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Old 11-17-2016, 07:21 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 1,649,946 times
Reputation: 9304
Keep in mind that the Senate races in 2018 are all in states that went for Trump this election. If Trumpism continues, the Senate will be safe from filibuster and any changes or appointments they want will sail through.

The House may be a different story but who knows what will happen in 2 years. I still find it hard to believe Trump would not "get" the ramifications of throwing 23 million people involved with Obamacare under the bus, plus take away Medicare as we know it for seniors already on the program.

I think the vast majority of voters had no idea what this election could mean for their health care or those of their parents. The reaction will be interesting when they find out. Sadly it may be too late.

Obamacare definitely needed changes for those paying ridiculously high premiums and deductibles and the Dems should have been more forceful in pursuing that. Lost opportunity.
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Old 11-17-2016, 09:50 AM
 
16,376 posts, read 22,431,011 times
Reputation: 14397
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I would much rather pay out of pocket for routine office visits, pap smears, etc. in exchange for lower premiums and a plan that covers the things that are truly out of reach such as hospitalizations, surgery, etc. It will be interesting to see what happens with Obamacare. Trump is a wildcard. I have no idea how things will play out.

Yes - something like a catastrophic health care plan with a $10,000 deductible. Heck, I would be ok with a $20,000 deductible. It would only kick in for MAJOR MAJOR issues and would prevent you from going bankrupt or from being refused surgery if something huge/expensive occurs such as a bad accident that requires 2 months of hospitalization, heart bypass surgery, cancer with expensive chemo.

Then you pay out of pocket for pretty much everything else. However, you would submit your insurance card for those services and get the 'prenegotiated rate' which is usually ~75% discount versus the normal cost for someone that doesn't have insurance. Your savings on the prenegotiated rate would be substantial each year for the small stuff, even though you don't reach your deductible.
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,032 posts, read 41,094,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sware2cod View Post
Yes - something like a catastrophic health care plan with a $10,000 deductible. Heck, I would be ok with a $20,000 deductible. It would only kick in for MAJOR MAJOR issues and would prevent you from going bankrupt or from being refused surgery if something huge/expensive occurs such as a bad accident that requires 2 months of hospitalization, heart bypass surgery, cancer with expensive chemo.

Then you pay out of pocket for pretty much everything else. However, you would submit your insurance card for those services and get the 'prenegotiated rate' which is usually ~75% discount versus the normal cost for someone that doesn't have insurance. Your savings on the prenegotiated rate would be substantial each year for the small stuff, even though you don't reach your deductible.
That would go back to the original concept of insurance: protection against catastrophic costs.

If such insurance were mandatory, then there should be no need to negotiate what is paid for a service. The price list would reflect the actual cost plus a reasonable profit for the provider of the service. Allowing people to opt out reduces the participation by folks who think they are healthy and do not need it. The more folks who participate, the less the premium should be for everyone.
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Old 11-17-2016, 12:50 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,659 posts, read 26,633,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Allowing people to opt out reduces the participation by folks who think they are healthy and do not need it.
So what happens when they are no longer healthy, e.g. a car accident, a diagnosis of cancer, a life threatening illness? That's the problem with health insurance. One can't predict when they will need it, but everyone will eventually need it.

And we're back to the problem of those who do have insurance paying for everyone who opted out.
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Old 11-17-2016, 01:22 PM
 
26,660 posts, read 13,676,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
That would go back to the original concept of insurance: protection against catastrophic costs.
Yes. This is exactly where I wish insurance would return to. People can purchase extra coverage if they want additional coverage but anything that's mandatory should boil down to covering what insurance was originally intended to cover. The premiums should reflect that level of service as well. I'm good with higher deductibles in return.
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Old 11-17-2016, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,032 posts, read 41,094,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
So what happens when they are no longer healthy, e.g. a car accident, a diagnosis of cancer, a life threatening illness? That's the problem with health insurance. One can't predict when they will need it, but everyone will eventually need it.

And we're back to the problem of those who do have insurance paying for everyone who opted out.
That's why no one should be allowed to opt out. There would need to be some provision to subsidize those who truly cannot pay. Those who do not want to be "forced" to buy insurance do not understand the concept of pooling money in order to have a pot from which everyone who participates in the pool can draw money for big expenses.
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Old 11-17-2016, 07:02 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,659 posts, read 26,633,915 times
Reputation: 24712
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Those who do not want to be "forced" to buy insurance do not understand the concept of pooling money in order to have a pot from which everyone who participates in the pool can draw money for big expenses.
Exactly.
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Old 11-18-2016, 03:30 AM
 
3,613 posts, read 4,104,291 times
Reputation: 5008
Quote:
Originally Posted by sware2cod View Post
Yes - something like a catastrophic health care plan with a $10,000 deductible. Heck, I would be ok with a $20,000 deductible. It would only kick in for MAJOR MAJOR issues and would prevent you from going bankrupt or from being refused surgery if something huge/expensive occurs such as a bad accident that requires 2 months of hospitalization, heart bypass surgery, cancer with expensive chemo.

Then you pay out of pocket for pretty much everything else. However, you would submit your insurance card for those services and get the 'prenegotiated rate' which is usually ~75% discount versus the normal cost for someone that doesn't have insurance. Your savings on the prenegotiated rate would be substantial each year for the small stuff, even though you don't reach your deductible.
You are probably one of the very few people that want something like this, and maybe have the means to pay for it. Read through other threads here where people won't even save for a $6000 deductible/OOP max, or less even and won't seek treatment for the "small things" because they don't want to pay the $300 or so cost for the office visit.

The "cash rate" is not 75% off normal costs, not even close. You may have lucked out and found a doctor that might discount that deeply, but that is not the norm. Now, Medicare reimbursement rates might be that low, especially with a MA plan, but that doesn't mean that is the cash price.

There are catastrophic plans for the under 30 crowd.
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