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Old 03-03-2018, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,391 posts, read 25,975,211 times
Reputation: 26304

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Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
I tried red yeast rice and it gave me chronic diarrhea and stomach pain. I'm on Lipitor now and I have some side effects but not as bad as the first three months. My over all cholesterol dropped from 278 to 156. My cardiologist is happy. I still take my fish oil, cod liver oil, flaxseed oil and vitamin D supplements every day. It keeps my good cholesterol high. Unfortunately, I'm in the hereditary problematic high cholesterol range. Now that I have two heart valves going bad I listen to my cardiologist. I'll deal with the muscle fatigue of the Lipitor, and I can still eat those chocolate covered marshmallow bunnies once in awhile. It's a quality of life issue.
Take some coenzyme Q10, too. It might help the muscle symptoms.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/709107

 
Old 03-03-2018, 10:37 AM
 
18,554 posts, read 6,037,470 times
Reputation: 12532
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
I tried red yeast rice and it gave me chronic diarrhea and stomach pain. I'm on Lipitor now and I have some side effects but not as bad as the first three months. My over all cholesterol dropped from 278 to 156. My cardiologist is happy. I still take my fish oil, cod liver oil, flaxseed oil and vitamin D supplements every day. It keeps my good cholesterol high. Unfortunately, I'm in the hereditary problematic high cholesterol range. Now that I have two heart valves going bad I listen to my cardiologist. I'll deal with the muscle fatigue of the Lipitor, and I can still eat those chocolate covered marshmallow bunnies once in awhile. It's a quality of life issue.
156 sounds so low...from all I read it shouldn't be too low. My total is 200 or so and other numbers are good. Our bodies do need cholesterol including our brains. There is so much to this cholesterol issue and I tend to trust the recommendations of Dr. Stephen Sinatra which includes COQ10 and other stuff.
 
Old 03-03-2018, 05:33 PM
 
80 posts, read 27,952 times
Reputation: 78

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYTf0z_zVs0


Make Yourself Heart Attack Proof



Caldwell Esselstyn, MD of the famed Cleveland Clinic gives a FULL 62 minute talk about reversing heart disease with a plantbased diet, from the 2003 VegSource Healthy Lifestyle Expo.

Dr. Esselstyn's ongoing 21-year study shows that you CAN reverse heart disease and save your life. Of 20 patients sent home to die by their cardiologists in 1989, every one is still alive and healthy today, and heart-disease free, even though together they had had a total of 63 cardiac events before entering his study




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlWvy1mN2DI


Diet Doctor VS Big Pharma


Check out this plant-based throw down with vegan physician Dr. Michael Greger. Following recent attempts to debunk What The Health, this was an important discussion. Dr Greger runs nutritionfacts.org and his book How Not To Die was a New York Times Top 10 best seller.

Last edited by The Dells; 03-03-2018 at 05:49 PM..
 
Old 03-03-2018, 05:58 PM
 
3,170 posts, read 892,562 times
Reputation: 2554
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamillaB View Post
Low fat diets will increase cholesterol. You need to cut down on sugar and carbs which cause inflammation. Once you have inflammation, the cholesterol builds up to protect your arteries from the inflammation and it backfires. Get rid of sugar -- pasta, breads, rice, potatoes, sweet veggies, sugary drinks and even fake sugar if you can. This will help your body heal from the inflammation and cholesterol will stop running to the "rescue".
I agree with this. Eating egg whites instead of whole eggs will not help. Low-fat yogurt will not help. Fake butter spread and vegetable oil will not help.

WHY are all those things still be recommended?

Reduce chronic inflammation by avoiding refined carbohydrates, and get enough physical exercise.

Don't take statins unless you have a genetic defect causing extremely high cholesterol (only a very small minority have this).

Statins interfere with natural process and make cholesterol extremely low. This is bad for the body, especially the brain.

Do not believe all those stories claiming that statins prevent dementia, cancer, alzheimers, etc. They are obviously from the drug companies.
 
Old 03-03-2018, 06:17 PM
 
18,554 posts, read 6,037,470 times
Reputation: 12532
For the most part, cholesterol is not the enemy. Pharma sure works hard. More info:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X35o4V27JBY
 
Old 03-03-2018, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,391 posts, read 25,975,211 times
Reputation: 26304
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dells View Post

Caldwell Esselstyn, MD of the famed Cleveland Clinic gives a FULL 62 minute talk about reversing heart disease with a plantbased diet, from the 2003 VegSource Healthy Lifestyle Expo.

Dr. Esselstyn's ongoing 21-year study shows that you CAN reverse heart disease and save your life. Of 20 patients sent home to die by their cardiologists in 1989, every one is still alive and healthy today, and heart-disease free, even though together they had had a total of 63 cardiac events before entering his study

Diet Doctor VS Big Pharma


Check out this plant-based throw down with vegan physician Dr. Michael Greger. Following recent attempts to debunk What The Health, this was an important discussion. Dr Greger runs nutritionfacts.org and his book How Not To Die was a New York Times Top 10 best seller.
You already invoked Esselstyn, who is critiqued here:

https://theskepticalcardiologist.com...nt-based-diet/

"Interestingly, patients not only were put on Esselstyn’s incredibly low fat diet, but they were also given cholesterol lowering medications and were “switched to statin as soon as these became available in 1987.”

In addition, 9 of the 18 patients who stuck with the program had previously undergone coronary bypass surgery and two had undergone angioplasty of a coronary artery.

6 of the 24 original patients 'could not comply with the program' and were sent back to their regular cardiologists. This gives you an idea of how difficult it was to follow this diet.

Esselsstyn’s 'data' then consists of following 18 patients, 9 of whom had already undergone coronary bypass surgery, all of whom were taking statin drugs with his diet without any comparison group.

This group of 18 did well from a heart standpoint, of course. It is impossible to know if the diet had anything to with their outcome. Most of them had already undergone the 'knife' or had had angioplasties that took care of their most worrisome coronary blockages. They were all taking statin drugs . They were all nonsmokers and they were all highly motivated to take good care of themselves in all lifestyle choices."

https://theskepticalcardiologist.com...an-diet-study/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
I agree with this. Eating egg whites instead of whole eggs will not help. Low-fat yogurt will not help. Fake butter spread and vegetable oil will not help.

WHY are all those things still be recommended?

Reduce chronic inflammation by avoiding refined carbohydrates, and get enough physical exercise.

Don't take statins unless you have a genetic defect causing extremely high cholesterol (only a very small minority have this).

Statins interfere with natural process and make cholesterol extremely low. This is bad for the body, especially the brain.

Do not believe all those stories claiming that statins prevent dementia, cancer, alzheimers, etc. They are obviously from the drug companies.
Statins have beneficial effects apart from the cholesterol lowering effect, including and anti-inflammatory effect. They do not make cholesterol "extremely low".

What to eat:

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/files/docs...t/chol_tlc.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
For the most part, cholesterol is not the enemy.
Ignore cholesterol if you wish.

If you look at an atherosclerotic artery, it's there.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 10:27 AM
 
3,170 posts, read 892,562 times
Reputation: 2554
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post


Statins have beneficial effects apart from the cholesterol lowering effect, including and anti-inflammatory effect. They do not make cholesterol "extremely low".
Statins are anti-inflammatory, and that is why they have some benefit for heart disease patients. But anti-inflammatory drugs are bad, and not necessary if you have a healthy lifestyle. Chronic inflammation results from an unhealthy lifestyle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Ignore cholesterol if you wish.

If you look at an atherosclerotic artery, it's there.
Yeah, it's there suzy q. We have been over this many times. It is an effect of chronic inflammation and artery disease, not a cause.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Middle of the ocean
27,331 posts, read 17,525,976 times
Reputation: 39723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
Statins are anti-inflammatory, and that is why they have some benefit for heart disease patients. But anti-inflammatory drugs are bad, and not necessary if you have a healthy lifestyle. Chronic inflammation results from an unhealthy lifestyle.

Blatantly and unequivocally untrue.
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Old 03-04-2018, 11:17 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,129 posts, read 6,301,171 times
Reputation: 12644
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
You already invoked Esselstyn, who is critiqued here:

https://theskepticalcardiologist.com...nt-based-diet/

"Interestingly, patients not only were put on Esselstyn’s incredibly low fat diet, but they were also given cholesterol lowering medications and were “switched to statin as soon as these became available in 1987.”

In addition, 9 of the 18 patients who stuck with the program had previously undergone coronary bypass surgery and two had undergone angioplasty of a coronary artery.

6 of the 24 original patients 'could not comply with the program' and were sent back to their regular cardiologists. This gives you an idea of how difficult it was to follow this diet.

Esselsstyn’s 'data' then consists of following 18 patients, 9 of whom had already undergone coronary bypass surgery, all of whom were taking statin drugs with his diet without any comparison group.

This group of 18 did well from a heart standpoint, of course. It is impossible to know if the diet had anything to with their outcome. Most of them had already undergone the 'knife' or had had angioplasties that took care of their most worrisome coronary blockages. They were all taking statin drugs . They were all nonsmokers and they were all highly motivated to take good care of themselves in all lifestyle choices."

https://theskepticalcardiologist.com...an-diet-study/
.

Sounds as though they were hardly "sent home to die", then. In fact, sounds like they were well enough to work with the programs.
 
Old 03-04-2018, 11:31 AM
 
4,203 posts, read 4,420,065 times
Reputation: 9275
Carbs, bad carbs... I cut them out and my chol. reading took a nose dive.
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