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My information was not inaccurate. I gave some statistics from the NP/PA group at CBCI.
I got my very accurate information that many PAs come into programs with no health care experience from the link I posted earlier. Most were working at non-clinical jobs, even if they were nominally in health care, e.g. selling medical equipment.
In the link you posted and quoted, the candidate gets their RN during their NP program. I do not believe I said anything to the contrary, but I don't feel like going back through this whole thread to check. That is NO different than a student going into a PA program with a sales background.
I never said that medical sales and insurance work counted toward a PA program. Try reading for comprehension. That's the background some of the PA students came in with.
I don't know of any NP "diploma mills". That was my point. If people are concerned about diploma mills, they ought to be concerned about them for all.
Again PA's don't go into a PA program with a "sales background"......not without 2000 clinical hands on patient care experience...
It is however possible to have a "sales background" and go through a "direct entry" NP program and become a NP with ZERO clinical experience.
You posted that a poster should research "PA diploma mills"....there is NO SUCH THING...
YOU referenced it....its incumbent on YOU to provide an example.....you won't find one
Meanwhile there ARE NP diploma mills...
Expertise can’t be acquired by online training. We are not interchangeable professions. Nursing is nursing and medicine is medicine. Our professions are complementary, and patients benefit when we work together. The independent practice of medicine by nurse practitioners is a folly that is leading to patient harm. One should be truly concerned about programs with acceptance rates in excess of 70 percent. Some have 100 percent acceptance rates. https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2018/02...rofession.html
NP programs with 70-100% acceptance rates???????
THOSE are diploma mills....
PA programs have MUCH lower acceptance rates.
The Duke PA Program routinely receives 2500-3000 applicants each year for 90 slots....
^^Hmm. Your link is totally non-impressive. It's a blog piece, written by a retired neurosurgeon (not Kevin) who says she doesn't want to bash NPs and then goes on to bash them. I get it, she thinks nurses belong at the bedside. I'm surprised she didn't add "barefoot and pregnant". Nurses should "know their place". She refers to nurse "training". "Bark, nursie, bark!" She's defensive-"I'm not protecting my turf", but she is, as above.
She offers no documentation for these so-called "diploma mils". Annndddd, she doesn't say anything about PAs. But I did some digging. I found a bunch of documented online PA schools. https://www.geteducated.com/top-onli...stant-programs It's not really surprising, lots of education is going to online. But hold on, many of these programs are for practicing PAs that don't have a masters! Do you want to discuss that? Tell me how does one get to be a PA without a master's degree.
You are going to see more and more of this as there are less and less new medical grads that are going into general practice. Also, insurance companies love them because they typically don't charge as much for an office visit. Nurse Practitioners have been around for almost 40 years.
There are advantages to seeing an NP or PA. They usually have a smaller patient load and can spend more time with you. Nurse Practitioners, especially, see their patients as people and tend to treat you as more than just a set of symptoms. There tends to be more of a personal relationship with these professionals.
NPs and PAs are an excellent healthcare resource and shouldn't be viewed as "sloppy seconds" compared to an MD or DO. If you need treatment for routine ailments such as strep throat, ear infections, flu, UTI's, etc. Then an NP is just for you!
I disagree. I pay a considerable amount of money for healthcare. When I schedule an appointment with a doctor’s office my expectation is that I will be treated by an M.D., not a nurse oractioner or physician’s assistant. There is a reason why M.D.’s have several years of medical school and internships. I have shown up for a doctor’s appointment only to be told, “You will be seeing the nurse practioner”, to which I replied, “No, I will not. I scheduled a DOCTOR’S appointment, not an N.P. appointment”. I acknowledge there are knowledgeable N.P.’s and P.A.’s out there but, when I am seeking a diagnosis, that diagnosis is coming from an M.D.
I disagree. I pay a considerable amount of money for healthcare. When I schedule an appointment with a doctor’s office my expectation is that I will be treated by an M.D., not a nurse oractioner or physician’s assistant. There is a reason why M.D.’s have several years of medical school and internships. I have shown up for a doctor’s appointment only to be told, “You will be seeing the nurse practioner”, to which I replied, “No, I will not. I scheduled a DOCTOR’S appointment, not an N.P. appointment”. I acknowledge there are knowledgeable N.P.’s and P.A.’s out there but, when I am seeking a diagnosis, that diagnosis is coming from an M.D.
My experience is the doctor's office has given me a choice when I call to schedule the appointment. I can usually see the PA within a week while the first available appointment with a doctor is months out.
Primary care physician or medicine practitioners provides best health guidance to avoid any health complications. You can have health screenings, comprehensive health tests at lower prices.
I see a nurse practitioner for general needs, hrt and med adjustments etc. I see a rheumatologist for my osteoporosis, though also work with NP for that too (she will test vitamin D status etc). I see an orthopedic sports med physician for some recent bone and muscle injuries. In general I see physician for specialty issues, and NP for routine care. It is VERY hard to get in to an MD where I live for routine care. I have found though that a referral from a NP to more specific care from a physician will get you in faster than directly calling that physician's office with no referral.
I saw that same statistic about RN graduates. It seems high since the majority of RNs are people going straight from high school to college. My wife, her sisters, and my daughter-in-law were all RN/BSNs by age 22.
Your insurance company has already negotiated it.
My wife is a CRNP with 37 years combined experience as an RN and CRNP. My son is an MD in his fellowship. She calls my son to ask for advice about patients and issues that she is not familiar with. She knows she will never have the in-depth knowledge and understanding that he gained from a pre-med undergrad degree, four years of medical school, residency, and fellowship.
That's assuming I'm paying via insurance or have insurance.
So a couple years ago, I moved to a new location across country. One of the first things I tried to establish was a health care provider. I called around to several places and I was told the same thing over and over. Basically, it's very rare that you can see an actual medical doctor here. Apparently they are booked for months. Instead, you're usually seen by a nurse practitioner or physician's assistant. I'm not trying to put down those two professions, but dang I want to see a doctor haha. I mean, there's a reason why one is a doctor and one is a nurse practitioner, right? When I was back home, it just didn't seem to be a problem. I went to the same doctor's office for most of my life and I was always able to see an actual MD. And if I had to go somewhere else, I'd usually see a doctor as well. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen anyone BUT a doctor when I had an health care appointment.
Is this a new practice, or do you think this may be a reflection of my new geographic location? I've never seen the health care field in such a bind where you can't even see an MD. I'm wondering if this is the new norm.
I see from some reports that fewer people are becoming doctors. When I was younger, doctors were held in high esteem, but those were the days that they actually made housecalls as well. Imagine that! That's over 50 years ago.
Also, my cousin became a nurse practitioner after years of working as a regular RN. It requires, of course, more schooling, but nurses get paid pretty well, and, of course, NP's get paid even more. So, after becoming a nurse, more schooling can get them more money, and likely with less physical exertion. One nurse I met recently told me that after some years, nurses that work in hospitals can expect to have ruined backs, with all the lifting of patients, etc. It's not an easy job, but since it's hard to get into see a doctor unless I plead special circumstances, I find talking to or seeing a nurse or NP is very good, since they can answer questions over the phone and give accurate answers. So I'm happy with nurses and NP's.
Primary care physician or medicine practitioners provides best health guidance to avoid any health complications. You can have health screenings, comprehensive health tests at lower prices.
Yes. I have come to realize (after all these years) it's best to have a primary care physician who has at hand my medical situation, even if I decide to see a doctor at my own behest, I still am with a system that will send reports back to my PCP. I like that.
Again PA's don't go into a PA program with a "sales background"......not without 2000 clinical hands on patient care experience...
It is however possible to have a "sales background" and go through a "direct entry" NP program and become a NP with ZERO clinical experience.
You posted that a poster should research "PA diploma mills"....there is NO SUCH THING...
YOU referenced it....its incumbent on YOU to provide an example.....you won't find one
Meanwhile there ARE NP diploma mills...
Expertise can’t be acquired by online training. We are not interchangeable professions. Nursing is nursing and medicine is medicine. Our professions are complementary, and patients benefit when we work together. The independent practice of medicine by nurse practitioners is a folly that is leading to patient harm. One should be truly concerned about programs with acceptance rates in excess of 70 percent. Some have 100 percent acceptance rates. https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2018/02...rofession.html
NP programs with 70-100% acceptance rates???????
THOSE are diploma mills....
PA programs have MUCH lower acceptance rates.
The Duke PA Program routinely receives 2500-3000 applicants each year for 90 slots....
I just had surgery and the nurse practitioner was far more detailed in her responses to me than the doctor was during my consultation with him. The doctor was good, I decided to go with him because I liked his attitude and felt comfortable with him. I just had inguinal hernia surgery and felt he wouldn't go in drunk or tired or slice me up because maybe he didn't like me. We got along pretty well. I saw him once for consultation and the next time was after the operation as he was filling out forms and I was waking up. When I had questions, I asked the Nurse Practioner later on the phone and she was great. Answered patiently and completely. He, on the other hand, must have had other things to do. :-)
But now that I'm older, I tend to ask more questions and have been happy with the care I receive from the NP's. The problem is that in my experience, doctors will not tell you beforehand what he really has to do, or what the real aftermath will be.
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