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Old 03-31-2013, 03:40 PM
 
10,746 posts, read 25,946,760 times
Reputation: 16026

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Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
This is all really good advice but useless unless your next of kin or poa are on the same page. I can't tell you how many DNR orders I've see rescinded by selfish family members who have had their family members placed on life support knowing it was against their loved ones wishes. Make sure you have someone you totally trust to respect your wishes as your power of attorney lest you find yourself in the same situation. My husband knows my wishes but in an emotional situation like that I find it hard to trust that he will respect my wishes. It's totally in his hands so who really knows what will happen. Just don't let me wake up at the place I work with all of my coworkers that have already seen me naked.

This! I about to post this very thing when I read your post.

I've seen it happen 3x in the last month...it's not pretty. At all. (not the waking up at work with coworkers seeing you naked )

 
Old 03-31-2013, 06:24 PM
 
16,488 posts, read 24,439,512 times
Reputation: 16339
A DNR (do not resustitate) is really necessary, and a living will helps too. Tell your physician and family as well. Then if anything life threatening happens to you the hospital will not do anything heroic to save you. My mother had one before she went into dementia. She was put in a nursing home and while there had a life threatening accident. My sister had to step-in mind you to make the nursing home honor it and she died a few days later. Personally I had a big problem with what happened to my mom. She was badly injured, but could have easily been saved with no last effects. I cannot imagine being a nurse or nirsing home employee wathing someone bleed to death internally when they could have been helped.
 
Old 04-01-2013, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
18,762 posts, read 11,757,490 times
Reputation: 64149
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDavid View Post
Are you the one who decides who your next of kind is? My closest family is my father and my brother. I would choose my brother for obvious reasons (my father is in his 80s) but we get along very well. I'm not so sure he would follow my wishes in that situation. But he should because he would be my heir.
Your next of kin would be your father, however your brother could be your poa and have the power to make decisions for you. In my case my only next of kin is my husband. If we were both incapacitated our poa is our attorney and our very good friend. It would be in the best interest for her children for her to let us go. They're in our will and would inherit enough to pay for college or buy a house. Just a little extra incentive to do the right thing.
 
Old 04-01-2013, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
18,762 posts, read 11,757,490 times
Reputation: 64149
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukiyo-e View Post
My elderly aunt had one drawn up, and also accorded me both regular and medical powers of attorney for her. She carried my contact information in her wallet and let her doctor know I had the medical power of attorney. When she was admitted to the hospital for dehydration, it was discovered upon re-hydrating her that she had a huge lung cancer tumor that no one knew about. He called me on the phone and asked me if she would want surgery (seriously? at 95?) and I told him no. I flew back east to the hospital the next day and she slipped peacefully away in a morphine-induced haze.

One of the best things she ever did for me was to make her wishes clearly known to me in writing. I didn't have to agonize wondering what she would have wanted or make huge decisions while in an emotionally upset state about a loved one that I was very close to. OTOH, it was kind of a strange feeling to stop any but palliative medical care, but I knew without any doubt whatsoever that that was what she wanted.
That's a wonderful story and you did the right thing. We just shipped one out last night in her 80's with stage 4 cancer on a vent. She had a DNR status with a return to vent order attached. There have been patients with advanced directives and DNR orders in place that have gone into cardiac arrest, resuscitated and placed on vents. It's called human error. Unfortunately it happens far too often in the hospitals.
 
Old 04-01-2013, 12:30 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,853 posts, read 35,071,597 times
Reputation: 22694
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
The OP isn't asking how to refuse treatment *only* when he's unconcious. He is saying he doesn't want to be treated at all, period. INCLUDING when he's unconscious.

I'm saying - if he wants to die, to just do it and get it over with and not waste anyone's time having to even wonder what his wishes are. His wish is clear: if he gets into an accident, OR has a stroke, OR becomes unconscious, he wants to be left to die and NOT taken to the hospital. He said this very plainly, very clearly, and very specifically, in his initial post.
My thoughts are that it should be his right, if that is what he wishes. Nobody should be forced to receive medical treatment if they are opposed to it.

20yrsinBranson
 
Old 04-01-2013, 03:12 PM
 
Location: At the corner of happy and free
6,457 posts, read 6,640,714 times
Reputation: 16232
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
My thoughts are that it should be his right, if that is what he wishes. Nobody should be forced to receive medical treatment if they are opposed to it.

20yrsinBranson
....Except that someone refusing any and all medical treatment, regardless of the situation, should be suspected of having mental health issues. If someone is opposed to basic care such as setting a broken bone, stitching up a bad gash, Heimlich maneuver, etc., does that sound like normal, healthy thinking? Who of sound mind would rather die of some injury or illness when there is a simple and effective treatment? (I'm not talking about chemo, risky surgery, etc). To me, it sounds like the OP may be have an intense phobia, a total and irrational distrust of the medical community, under the mind-control of a cult, or something, because I've known anyone who flat-out never wanted any type of medical care at all.

If this person slipped and fell in the bath tub, would it be wrong to pull him out of the water? That's not a medical procedure. But let's say he'd been underwater long enough that he stopped breathing, would he want to be left lying on the floor dying, rather than having CPR (which would be considered a type of medical procedure)?

This whole thread makes no sense to me, and the OP hasn't answered any of my questions.
 
Old 04-01-2013, 07:10 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,708,910 times
Reputation: 20198
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
....Except that someone refusing any and all medical treatment, regardless of the situation, should be suspected of having mental health issues. If someone is opposed to basic care such as setting a broken bone, stitching up a bad gash, Heimlich maneuver, etc., does that sound like normal, healthy thinking? Who of sound mind would rather die of some injury or illness when there is a simple and effective treatment? (I'm not talking about chemo, risky surgery, etc). To me, it sounds like the OP may be have an intense phobia, a total and irrational distrust of the medical community, under the mind-control of a cult, or something, because I've known anyone who flat-out never wanted any type of medical care at all.

If this person slipped and fell in the bath tub, would it be wrong to pull him out of the water? That's not a medical procedure. But let's say he'd been underwater long enough that he stopped breathing, would he want to be left lying on the floor dying, rather than having CPR (which would be considered a type of medical procedure)?

This whole thread makes no sense to me, and the OP hasn't answered any of my questions.
If it were my sister refusing to get a cut cleaned and treated with antiseptic and stitched up, I'd probably consider petitioning the court for power of attorney and become her legal representative, and have her declared mentally unfit to make rational decisions for herself. You have to be pretty insane to reject all medical treatment, if "all" includes "things that don't have to save your life, because your life isn't in peril in the first place, but if you DON'T do it, you could wind up in danger, through intentional neglect."

Kind of like telling a hoarder to take the garbage out to the curb instead of stockpiling it in the garage. Perhaps there's no danger in bringing the garbage to the garage. But keeping it there, and refusing to take it out - is a sign of mental illness.

The message I get from the OP is that he wants to die, but he doesn't want to commit suicide.
 
Old 04-02-2013, 10:46 AM
 
106 posts, read 171,484 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalcrazy View Post
Your next of kin would be your father, however your brother could be your poa and have the power to make decisions for you. In my case my only next of kin is my husband. If we were both incapacitated our poa is our attorney and our very good friend. It would be in the best interest for her children for her to let us go. They're in our will and would inherit enough to pay for college or buy a house. Just a little extra incentive to do the right thing.
My father is very elderly though. I'm not sure my brother would follow my wishes but he should. He and his sons are the ones in my will.
 
Old 04-02-2013, 10:48 AM
 
106 posts, read 171,484 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
....Except that someone refusing any and all medical treatment, regardless of the situation, should be suspected of having mental health issues. If someone is opposed to basic care such as setting a broken bone, stitching up a bad gash, Heimlich maneuver, etc., does that sound like normal, healthy thinking? Who of sound mind would rather die of some injury or illness when there is a simple and effective treatment? (I'm not talking about chemo, risky surgery, etc). To me, it sounds like the OP may be have an intense phobia, a total and irrational distrust of the medical community, under the mind-control of a cult, or something, because I've known anyone who flat-out never wanted any type of medical care at all.

If this person slipped and fell in the bath tub, would it be wrong to pull him out of the water? That's not a medical procedure. But let's say he'd been underwater long enough that he stopped breathing, would he want to be left lying on the floor dying, rather than having CPR (which would be considered a type of medical procedure)?

This whole thread makes no sense to me, and the OP hasn't answered any of my questions.
If my conscious, I'll sort out the issue. I may accept treatment or I may not. That's not the problem. I just don't want anything done when I'm unconscious.
 
Old 04-02-2013, 06:34 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,853 posts, read 35,071,597 times
Reputation: 22694
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayanne View Post
....Except that someone refusing any and all medical treatment, regardless of the situation, should be suspected of having mental health issues. If someone is opposed to basic care such as setting a broken bone, stitching up a bad gash, Heimlich maneuver, etc., does that sound like normal, healthy thinking? Who of sound mind would rather die of some injury or illness when there is a simple and effective treatment? (I'm not talking about chemo, risky surgery, etc). To me, it sounds like the OP may be have an intense phobia, a total and irrational distrust of the medical community, under the mind-control of a cult, or something, because I've known anyone who flat-out never wanted any type of medical care at all.

If this person slipped and fell in the bath tub, would it be wrong to pull him out of the water? That's not a medical procedure. But let's say he'd been underwater long enough that he stopped breathing, would he want to be left lying on the floor dying, rather than having CPR (which would be considered a type of medical procedure)?

This whole thread makes no sense to me, and the OP hasn't answered any of my questions.
So, basically, you are saying that the 100,000+ members of the Christian Science religion are all mentally ill because they do not believe what YOU believe? I suppose you think they should all be institutionalized because they don't believe what YOU believe, too right?

Part of living in a free country is the right to choose what kind of medical treatment they receive.

20yrsiinBranson
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