First high vitamin, then low fat, then low carb, now low protein (daily basis, hormone)

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by Sacman

Those are all healthy except Low-carb. That's why people "working on" low-carb are "weeks" into the diet. They don't last.

I've maintained a low-carb WOL for 14 years. Go figure.

[Sacman]

Originally Posted by Woof

I've known plenty of vegans in Massachusetts and California ..... they just get a slightly different set of illnesses.

Consider, many people go vegan BECAUSE they're ill.
It's always humorous when people say they know vegans(plural - hahahah). Your statement is using power of suggestion. The ignorant are supposed to connect vegan with illness, but meat doesn't prevent any illness. It just has too much protein and fat which impedes the body's workings. Studies show vegans are healthier.

I got less illnesses after going vegan.(20 years ago)
After going raw, I healed old injuries and tinnitus
After going fruitarian, I got sexy. (youtube - Gary11101), and super-happy.

Consider these sayings:

"Sick as a dog"
"Healthy as a horse"

One is vegan.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Sacman

Too much fat and protein is a burden to convert into glucose.

As if glucose is the only thing your body needs. By that metric, a diet of simple refined carbs would be the gold standard.

It's difficult to adjust to high-fruit

Because it is completely unnatural to do so. And, your liver probably looks like foie gras.

And contrary to the erroneous post(2 up)

Yet, you can refute none of it.

I'm way beyond vegan(5 years raw-high-fruit 20 years vegan) and I have NO deficiencies. No supplements,

Yes, you do (or you're lying). It is IMPOSSIBLE for a vegan to get any B12 and enough D3 through an all plant diet.

Nature has it right

Yes, it does. That is why 99.9% of all people on the planet are not vegan. Veganism is a new cult of extremists. The word vegan (circa 1944) itself is even newer than television. The last time I checked, nature existed long before then.

[Woof]

Originally Posted by Sacman

..... Studies show vegans are healthier.....

There are lots of studies out there. Perhaps some small scale studies show that vegans are healthier ...... and others show that a high-meat diet as in Atkins or Paleo are healthiest ........ but the largest studies seem to indicate that the balanced Mediterranean diet is the best.

In my opinion, the only significant factor in diet is calories vs energy expended. Plant foods are mostly lower in calories and harder to digest, while meat is easy to digest and high in calories. So a plant diet might work to lose weight and increase health IF it is satisfying to an individual eating modest amounts ...... but other people are more satisfied by protein and fat and can lose weight on such a diet better than on veggies, which might make them more and more hungry (as happened to me).

[LittleDolphin]

While we all have our own preferences and ways of eating that we defend--and enjoy, my casual observation is this:

Populations that eat as Asians do in their own countries, tend to be slender.

Think of the Japanese, Koreans, Malaysians, Thai, Vietnamese...and so on. Only when they turn to a Western-style diet do they take on Western-style obesity and diabetes--and increased cancer.

What do their native diets have in common? Small amounts of animal protein and large amounts of vegetables and fruit. Little glucose-containing yeast breads or pastries. Little or almost no dairy--especially cheese and pizza. Few burgers and French-fries. Low amounts of saturated fats.

Just the opposite way most of us tend to eat.

Diet does matter, doesn't it?

[Sacman]

Palm-face

The only thing worth correcting is

99.9% of all people on the planet are not vegan.

1st - it's not that high.
2nd - 98%? of people are living unnaturally. Animal products are big business and the concept has spread(like a LOT of crap has).

The word vegan is new. But it's the oldest way of eating.... for religious people, think Adam & Eve. For others, imagine the first animals. There were no other animals to eat. Nature couldn't work if a type of life needed to scavenge off itself. Everything comes from something else.

Cows, chickens and pigs are vegan(not fed meat or dairy). Where do they get that B12??? Good Bacteria.

[Woof]

Originally Posted by LittleDolphin

While we all have our own preferences and ways of eating that we defend--and enjoy, my casual observation is this:

Populations that eat as Asians do in their own countries, tend to be slender.

Think of the Japanese, Koreans, Malaysians, Thai, Vietnamese...and so on. Only when they turn to a Western-style diet do they take on Western-style obesity and diabetes--and increased cancer.

What do their native diets have in common? Small amounts of animal protein and large amounts of vegetables and fruit. Little glucose-containing yeast breads or pastries. Little or almost no dairy--especially cheese and pizza. Few burgers and French-fries. Low amounts of saturated fats.

Just the opposite way most of us tend to eat.

Diet does matter, doesn't it?

As I keep pointing out, Europeans live pretty much as long as Asians and are as healthy (or healthier when the Asian country has poor public health measures), despite having traditional diets high in animal and dairy products. I looked at some pictures of my Swiss parents' generation (who ate a very solid diet of fried foods, eggs, steak, sausages, etc but also worked it off). They were almost all quite lean. (oddly enough, though, only after they moved to America did they start putting on weight ..... the Swiss branch of the family is still leaner than the American.)

Diet only matters in the sense of getting obese or not, which can happen with any type of diet.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Sacman

Palm-face

The only thing worth correcting is

1st - it's not that high.
2nd - 98%? of people are living unnaturally. Animal products are big business and the concept has spread(like a LOT of crap has).

Yes, yes... that animal product business was so big when humans/hominids were hunter gatherers.

The word vegan is new. But it's the oldest way of eating.... for religious people, think Adam & Eve. For others, imagine the first animals. There were no other animals to eat. Nature couldn't work if a type of life needed to scavenge off itself. Everything comes from something else.

See the above statement about hunter/gatherers. For religious people, think of the parable of the fatted calf.

Imagine the animals after the first animals. You know, the ones like lions, tigers (along with every other cat), wolves, dogs, etc. which are most decidely carnivorous. I guess they must have missed the evolutionary memo.

Cows, chickens and pigs are vegan(not fed meat or dairy). Where do they get that B12??? Good Bacteria.

Chckens and pigs are most certainly not vegan. They'll eat just about anything. If you ever witnessed a chicken pluck a worm out of the ground or a pig take out a rodent, you'd know that. Though not their primary source of nutrition, cows eat THOUSANDS of insects every day. My guess is that you haven't been closer to a farm than what you've seen on DirecTV.

As for that "good bacteria"... you don't have it. However, many animals do. It grows in their gut and aids in the breakdown of cellulose which is something humans absolutely cannot digest. That's why animal products are a good source of B12 (along with D3 and many other vitamins). That's also why vegans would need to supplement -- humans can't make their own B12 and, unless you live near the equator or in a desert, you can't synthesize enough vitamin D. But, you can get both in ample supply by simply eating a piece of meat.

Veganism is a modern, 1st world choice. Nothing more, nothing less. Without modern supplementation and the petro-based food transport infrastructure, it is entirely unsustainable. Every single one of them would die off. I know it's inconvenient for you that the independent cycle of animal and human life and evolutionary agriculture has, for millions of years, contained the use of animals for food. You simply can't change history with beliefs, half-truths, pseudo-morals and idiotic metaphors.

[LittleDolphin]

Originally Posted by Woof

As I keep pointing out, Europeans live pretty much as long as Asians and are as healthy (or healthier when the Asian country has poor public health measures), despite having traditional diets high in animal and dairy products. I looked at some pictures of my Swiss parents' generation (who ate a very solid diet of fried foods, eggs, steak, sausages, etc but also worked it off). They were almost all quite lean. (oddly enough, though, only after they moved to America did they start putting on weight ..... the Swiss branch of the family is still leaner than the American.)

Diet only matters in the sense of getting obese or not, which can happen with any type of diet.

Well, yes and no. True, you can be skinny and sickly. And obese and relatively healthy.

Skinny versus heavy does not equal health.

Our diet/nutritional intake contribute or prevent cancer, heart conditions, high blood pressure, arthritis and diabetes--just to name a few conditions/diseases. Being skinny is not an indication of health--many skinny people are disease-ridden...but longevitiy, while maintaining health, is.

The U.S. has fallen to 35th in longevity...and keeps falling. We are not a healthy nation. And it's all diet and sedentary life-style related. We supposedly have top health care--so we should be healthy and live long lives. But we do not compared to the other 34 nations ahead of us.

[California831]

Ahah the never ending health debate. Hasnt everyone agreed a balanced diet is best. If you dont eat a bunch of processed foods and refined sugars, and eat fresh veggies, fruits and grass fed organic meats, youre definitely healthier than the masses (double entendre).