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Old 02-19-2015, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,499 posts, read 54,084,735 times
Reputation: 47919

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie View Post
Because there ARE no easy ways around it, not for now at least. They HAVEN'T yet invented a magic weight loss pill where you can eat whatever you want and lose weight, and they probably won't for a while. So your choices are to exercise that willpower, or to remain obese. Those who truly want to achieve results just do it - and there are plenty of examples of people who have lost weight and maintained it, which means it is possible. Those who don't truly commit to it come up with excuses. I've seen a documentary about morbidly obese patients who are hospitalized to try and lose weight and yet will blatantly lie to their doctors, manipulate family members into sneaking them food, just go to any extreme to avoid changing their lifestyles. Sorry, but that type of mindset is not a problem of society or biology or medicine, it's the problem of the individual, and they've got no one to blame but themselves. And yes, I feel exactly the same about drug users or alcoholics - I understand it's nearly impossible for many of them to make a recovery, and yet I feel no sympathy because they made the beds they're lying in, with their own choices.
It is just this kind of attitude this article was trying to dispel. So to you being overweight, being a drug addict or alcoholic are all just a matter of willpower. How incredibly sad to be locked into this kind of mindset. And even worse for the people around you who might be suffering.
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
10,358 posts, read 7,988,269 times
Reputation: 27768
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
It is just this kind of attitude this article was trying to dispel. So to you being overweight, being a drug addict or alcoholic are all just a matter of willpower. How incredibly sad to be locked into this kind of mindset. And even worse for the people around you who might be suffering.
Thanks for saying it so I don't have to.

We have created strains of rats and mice which reliably become obese when kept in exactly the same conditions as normal wild-type mice, and breeds of horses which predictably develop metabolic syndrome as they age. We can take a person of normal weight and turn him/her morbidly obese simply by damaging a small region of their hypothalamus. We have classes of drugs which are known for causing weight gain as a side effect (corticosteroids, SSRIs, and typical neuroleptics), and others which are known to produce weight loss as a side effect (nicotine, amphetamines). Studies have shown that adopted kids grow up to more closely match their biological parents' weight than their adoptive parents and siblings, and that identical twins reared apart almost always have nearly-identical weights as adults. We know that weight is about as heritable as height. We know that physiologic changes occur in the long-term obese which make sustained weight loss more difficult, and that these changes do not appear to be reversible. We know that only about 5% of people who lose a large amount of weight manage to keep it off long-term.

But none of that matters, it's all about "willpower."

People should improve their diet and get some regular exercise for the sake of improving their health. They shouldn't do so with the goal of becoming thin, because that's far less likely to happen.
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Old 02-19-2015, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,164 posts, read 27,228,265 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
It is just this kind of attitude this article was trying to dispel. So to you being overweight, being a drug addict or alcoholic are all just a matter of willpower. How incredibly sad to be locked into this kind of mindset. And even worse for the people around you who might be suffering.
I think it's related to how individuals react to food. Just as one person can drink alcohol here and there and never become addicted while another person ends up drinking a liter of Vodka a day until it kills them. We react differently to such things as food and alcohol.

I've never been overweight. When I become upset, or happy, I don't run to food for comfort. Food never comforts me. (if I'm very upset, I actually lose my appetite and lose weight) But I have a couple friends who've been very overweight throughout their lives, and they've explained to me how they will turn to food for comfort in difficult times, or even happy times. As if they get a "high" from certain foods. That's going to make it a lot more difficult to lose weight. I've heard it described as even more difficult than addressing alcohol addiction because it would be like telling a raging alcoholic that they have to learn to just have one drink per day, whereas cutting out alcohol altogether is easier. You can't stop eating altogether.
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Old 02-19-2015, 11:48 AM
 
2,547 posts, read 4,229,133 times
Reputation: 5612
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
It is just this kind of attitude this article was trying to dispel. So to you being overweight, being a drug addict or alcoholic are all just a matter of willpower. How incredibly sad to be locked into this kind of mindset. And even worse for the people around you who might be suffering.
It's a matter of choices. With the exception of a very minor percentage of babies being born abnormally large or gaining weight abnormally in infancy, or those born to addicted mothers, no one is born an addict or obese. Even more so for things like drugs, those are people who made that first step in picking up that needle or whatever. And the vast majority of the morbidly obese did NOT get there by eating healthy food in moderation all their life, nor did they get there in one day. There were years and years where they must have been aware that they are gaining weight and took no action, when the 10-15 lbs they gained would have been much easier to lose and maintain than 150.
Again, I agree that in some cases, a genetic metabolic disorder or medication can make it so that a person is consuming 1200 calories and still gaining weight - and those are the people I do feel true sympathy for, that must be a terrible place to be in (being placed on steroids is one of my fears). However, I do not believe they constitute the majority or even a large part of the morbidly obese. Most did get there by simply making bad choices. Just like the drug addicts got there by making the wrong choice.

And I'm not the spokesperson for willpower, far from it - and being aware of it is since childhood has actually prevented some bad decisions on my part. For example I knew that I would never have the willpower to quit smoking if I started - my dad smoked, so I never did, even though in my teen years smoking was still 'cool' and I was surrounded by smoking peers. I knew the addictive power of drugs, so I knew never to 'experiment' with them, because the stupid 'fun' you'd get from the high was in no way worth it. I didn't drink to excess - and I may very well have 'alcoholic' genes, my grandfather was an alcoholic and my dad has addictive tendencies. But I chose not to test it and find out. And when I noticed myself starting to gain weight during puberty, I freaked and started watching what I eat for the first time in my life, and signed up for the gym even though I abhored exercising and still do. Again, I knew that I didn't have it in me to struggle with losing a large amount of weight - and that it would be easier for me to prevent that weight gain in the first place. If I had chosen to ignore it, continue eating the way i did, and do nothing, I could very easily have ended up 50-100 lbs heavier several years down the road - at which point the weight loss would have indeed become much more difficult.

I was very young when I made many of those decisions for myself - I'm talking 13-15 years old. If I could do it then, I don't feel bad for the too many people who simply don't think about these things, not just as young teens but even as grown adults. Too many people choose instant gratification at any given moment, choose 'fun' and what feels good right now and don't give a thought to the consequences, or think they're special and the consequences won't apply to them. That is willful ignorance that again, I personally have zero sympathy for. Sorry if this is offensive to the bleeding hearts on here.
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Old 02-19-2015, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Colorado
277 posts, read 519,101 times
Reputation: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Thanks for saying it so I don't have to.

We have created strains of rats and mice which reliably become obese when kept in exactly the same conditions as normal wild-type mice, and breeds of horses which predictably develop metabolic syndrome as they age. We can take a person of normal weight and turn him/her morbidly obese simply by damaging a small region of their hypothalamus. We have classes of drugs which are known for causing weight gain as a side effect (corticosteroids, SSRIs, and typical neuroleptics), and others which are known to produce weight loss as a side effect (nicotine, amphetamines). Studies have shown that adopted kids grow up to more closely match their biological parents' weight than their adoptive parents and siblings, and that identical twins reared apart almost always have nearly-identical weights as adults. We know that weight is about as heritable as height. We know that physiologic changes occur in the long-term obese which make sustained weight loss more difficult, and that these changes do not appear to be reversible. We know that only about 5% of people who lose a large amount of weight manage to keep it off long-term.

But none of that matters, it's all about "willpower."

People should improve their diet and get some regular exercise for the sake of improving their health. They shouldn't do so with the goal of becoming thin, because that's far less likely to happen.
I was always 'normal' weight growing up until after my son was born - I had a major mental breakdown and was put on anti-depressants and anti-psychotics .... I gained almost 60 lbs. during that time (almost 8 years) .... I stopped all medications finally and 'surprise' my weight went down to my 'normal' range ... I didn't change my eating habits or anything else ... just stopped the meds. Later on I worked a 12 hour graveyard shift for a long time and guess what - I started gaining weight again even though I was eating a lot less than previously ... and of course I started on other meds for pain, high-blood pressure, cholesterol and anti-anxiety ... if you ever wonder why a lot of us 'older' (I am 66 now) people seem to be overweight look to how many meds we take and you will have your answer. I look at pictures of myself in a bikini ( a long time ago) and wonder what happened ... I was skinny until the doctors got to me.
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Old 02-22-2015, 07:33 AM
 
6,353 posts, read 11,591,423 times
Reputation: 6313
There was a thought provoking article in the NY times a few years back - "the fat trap". It examined studies that show once you lose more than 10% of body weight the metabolism changes and cravings increase significantly.

So while I weigh more than I like I am so glad it has been stable. I lost about 8% of my long term weight last fall, now bounced back to 5% loss. I'd like to lose a little more but plan to go slowly. I'm hoping after a couple of years at a lower plateau I can lose 10% of the lower weight. I'm very fortunate that I haven't gotten to the zone to eperience uncomfortable cravings.

This isn't too encouraging for those who have had large weight loss - but if you have just started dieting my advice is to go slowly. Calculate that 10% point and consider staying above that for a while.
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Old 02-23-2015, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Chicago
3,339 posts, read 5,989,780 times
Reputation: 4242
Quote:
Originally Posted by creeksitter View Post
There was a thought provoking article in the NY times a few years back - "the fat trap". It examined studies that show once you lose more than 10% of body weight the metabolism changes and cravings increase significantly.

So while I weigh more than I like I am so glad it has been stable. I lost about 8% of my long term weight last fall, now bounced back to 5% loss. I'd like to lose a little more but plan to go slowly. I'm hoping after a couple of years at a lower plateau I can lose 10% of the lower weight. I'm very fortunate that I haven't gotten to the zone to eperience uncomfortable cravings.

This isn't too encouraging for those who have had large weight loss - but if you have just started dieting my advice is to go slowly. Calculate that 10% point and consider staying above that for a while.
Yes, that was a good article. Here's a link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/ma...anted=all&_r=0
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