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Old 04-27-2016, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,752 posts, read 18,389,677 times
Reputation: 8941

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With all do respect, your links do not support your claims.

These are about supplements that have been tainted with toxic substances or include substances not labeled. Certainly that is of some concern, but it has nothing to do with the individual supplement (magnesium, iron...etc) itself. Also can be avoided by purchasing from trusted vendors and/or USP certified products.

For the record, most of my individual supplements (vitamin D, multivitamin, calcium) are Costco/Kirkland brand, which is USP certified.

Ok, this is about one specific compound and the article itself makes no real distinction between food vs. supplement form. What does this have to do with the topic at hand?

General consensus (which includes your own article) on vitamin E is that it might be beneficial at lower doses, possibly harmful at higher doses.

People who are smart and do their research (hence why I always point them to Examine's website) should have no issue.

Your own link says too much vitamin C is unlikely to be harmful.

Another one saying "it's good, but if you take too much it might, maybe, cause problems". How does this support your claim?

Makes no distinction between naturally occurring vs supplemental fish oils. How does this support your claim?
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Old 04-27-2016, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Woodstock, GA
1,983 posts, read 3,348,398 times
Reputation: 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
The French Paradox

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_paradox

Read the whole article on food eaten in high amounts by French and red wines and the grape seed, pycnogenol, resveratrol connection.

I don't drink wines anymore but taking grape seed over 2 decades.

Lot of discussion on cholesterol, heart attacks, strokes...thought I'd put this one out there.
I have wondered this ever since my heart attack. I've followed doctor's advice and cut down drastically on cholesterol-laden foods such as red meat, eggs, cheese, and butter. But that got me thinking about the high levels of dairy in the French diet. I have never heard of the French paradox before. So now I have something new to read about.

Thanks for the posting!

As a side note: I've started to move towards a Mediterranean diet as recommended by my doctor. One of the nice aspects of that diet is: regular consumption of red wine!

I'm not going to step in to the supplements argument.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:45 AM
 
18,765 posts, read 6,129,215 times
Reputation: 12658
As far as side effects with supplements, one I probably HAD was from St Johns Wort years ago as I was dealing with a depression that I suspected was from sluggish thyroid but the MD could not help me for years as he went with the lab numbers.....remember WE ARE LAB NUMBERS in the medical world...another long history story on symptoms vs numbers. Anyway, SJW elevated blood pressure and I deduced it was from the SJW. So stopped it.

It took 10 yrs but I finally got my D.O. to put me on desiccated thyroid support and depression lifted in 4 days.....long long journey. All these years took me to realize we are not Numbers....we are symptoms and before labs our doctors treated symptoms.

Now Echineaca saves me...if and when I feel I might get a cold, sore throat etc etc..I start with this "E" herb and my symptoms are gone in a short time. I have not had a cold in over 20 yrs. Echineaca dosing needs to be often in the very beginning of feeling cold symptoms.


Bill, glad you are appreciating the French Paradox info...makes a lot of sense to me. Of course I swear by OPC's which came from France and which I'm going into 21 yrs taking this grape/pine bark supplement.

I do keep an OPEN mind on about everything I find that can make sense in this whole wide world of sickness and health.
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:06 AM
 
6,805 posts, read 3,275,204 times
Reputation: 8481
Quote:
Originally Posted by billl View Post
I have wondered this ever since my heart attack. I've followed doctor's advice and cut down drastically on cholesterol-laden foods such as red meat, eggs, cheese, and butter. But that got me thinking about the high levels of dairy in the French diet. I have never heard of the French paradox before. So now I have something new to read about.

Thanks for the posting!

As a side note: I've started to move towards a Mediterranean diet as recommended by my doctor. One of the nice aspects of that diet is: regular consumption of red wine!

I'm not going to step in to the supplements argument.
Here is one of the more interesting parts of the French paradox- Vitamin K2

"Canadian nutritionist Kate Rhéume-Bleue proposes that the explanation for the lower rate of cardiovascular disease in France is the high level of vitamin K2 (also known as menaquinone) in some of the fattier foods that form a part of the French diet. Lack of vitamin K2 in the diet is linked to increased calcification of plaques in artery walls."



Dietary Intake of Menaquinone Is Associated with a Reduced Risk of Coronary Heart Disease: The Rotterdam Study

"These findings suggest that an adequate intake of menaquinone could be important for CHD prevention."
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
13,752 posts, read 18,389,677 times
Reputation: 8941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just A Guy View Post
Here is one of the more interesting parts of the French paradox- Vitamin K2

"Canadian nutritionist Kate Rhéume-Bleue proposes that the explanation for the lower rate of cardiovascular disease in France is the high level of vitamin K2 (also known as menaquinone) in some of the fattier foods that form a part of the French diet. Lack of vitamin K2 in the diet is linked to increased calcification of plaques in artery walls."



Dietary Intake of Menaquinone Is Associated with a Reduced Risk of Coronary Heart Disease: The Rotterdam Study

"These findings suggest that an adequate intake of menaquinone could be important for CHD prevention."
K2 is a very good one to take. It's been suggested that a combination of D3 and K2 has a synergistic effect.
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Old 04-27-2016, 12:30 PM
 
17,889 posts, read 9,831,212 times
Reputation: 17371
I don't think you actually read those articles. If you had, you would have discovered several things:


1. They were about extreme supplements people are taking for extreme purposes, or


2. They were about supplements that proved dangerous in extreme doses, or


3. They disputed claims of perfect effectiveness of any particular supplement, pointing out various studies for certain supplements were "all over the map" in terms of effectiveness.


Not one of those articles came anywhere near an assertion or even an implication of "Almost invariably, supplements are eventually shown to do more harm that good."


Not one of those articles suggested that supplements should not be taken to correct dietary deficiencies.
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Old 04-27-2016, 04:18 PM
 
2,056 posts, read 2,262,712 times
Reputation: 3749
I'm sure they're healthier because they don't eat processed foods, junk foods, sugar, etc and rely more on whole foods, fresh vegs and fruits. Still, I used to work in health and medical statistical research, and you can make statistics say anything you wish them to say. So consider the sources, and allow for genetic and geographic differences too. Over here, you can easily see why the Standard American Diet (SAD) is responsible for all the obesity and unhealthy people in this country.

Go into a typical American grocery store or restaurant and you will see some of the unhealthiest foods on the planet. Dead animals and their by products that have been filled w/ growth hormones, antibiotics and god knows what else, GMO produce and fruit that has been shipped far from it's source and sprayed w/ pesticides, enriched flour, sugar, sugar saturated foods, items brimming w/ high fructose corn syrup, wheat and wheat gluten in everything, white potatoes, white rice, unhealthy cooking oils, farm raised fish, etc. It's all gonna kill you sooner or later if you eat that regularly. Eat a diet of local organic produce, nuts and fruits, combine that w/ a vegetarian diet that has as few animal products as possible, and you will live long and prosper! Don't do it, and you will look like the people in McDonald's and Burger King. It's called cause and effect.

Last edited by smarino; 04-27-2016 at 04:27 PM..
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Old 04-29-2016, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Woodstock, GA
1,983 posts, read 3,348,398 times
Reputation: 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by smarino View Post
Eat a diet of local organic produce, nuts and fruits, combine that w/ a vegetarian diet that has as few animal products as possible, and you will live long and prosper! Don't do it, and you will look like the people in McDonald's and Burger King. It's called cause and effect.
Funny ...., since the point of this whole thread is that the French don't do that. Their diet is heavy in animal products (milk, butter, cheese, eggs) but they certainly don't look like the people in McDonald's and Burger King. And they aren't all dying off from heart attacks, either.

Of course there are a number of other differences too (far less processed food, more wine, more K2, an overall healthier lifestyle with less stress and more exercise, more wine, etc.).
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Old 04-29-2016, 12:35 PM
 
18,765 posts, read 6,129,215 times
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Bill, here is the history of the FRENCH scientist on OPC's...aka grape seed ex, pycnogenol, resveratrol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Masquelier

More on the good doctor:

http://www.masqueliers.us/reknowed-s...-and-Pine-Bark
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Old 04-29-2016, 12:43 PM
 
17,889 posts, read 9,831,212 times
Reputation: 17371
Quote:
Originally Posted by billl View Post
Funny ...., since the point of this whole thread is that the French don't do that. Their diet is heavy in animal products (milk, butter, cheese, eggs) but they certainly don't look like the people in McDonald's and Burger King. And they aren't all dying off from heart attacks, either.

Of course there are a number of other differences too (far less processed food, more wine, more K2, an overall healthier lifestyle with less stress and more exercise, more wine, etc.).
And smoke like chimneys.
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