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Old 06-20-2016, 10:40 PM
 
Location: TX
3,899 posts, read 4,513,315 times
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What I didn't like is that the side effects of statin weren't taken seriously. I complained to doctors about them myself, but my complaints were simply ignored. After a decade on statins, I couldn't tolerate the severe side effects anymore. I stopped taking them and could tell I was feeling so much better. I also feel like people have been misled by the medical establishment, scientists and government for a long time about nutrition and diet and what we should be eating if we want to be healthy.

 
Old 06-21-2016, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
Reputation: 26457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee W. View Post
What I didn't like is that the side effects of statin weren't taken seriously. I complained to doctors about them myself, but my complaints were simply ignored. After a decade on statins, I couldn't tolerate the severe side effects anymore. I stopped taking them and could tell I was feeling so much better. I also feel like people have been misled by the medical establishment, scientists and government for a long time about nutrition and diet and what we should be eating if we want to be healthy.
Recommendations about diet change as new information becomes available. That is the way it should be. There is no magic diet, and for most of us just eating a diet rich in vegetables and fruit with limited red meat and sufficient calories to maintain a healthy weight is the best approach.

The fact is that most people do not have severe side effects from statins, and severe complications are very uncommon.

Statins and Muscle Pain | Berkeley Wellness

In a study of 108,000 people:

"The key finding was that among the 11,000 who reported stopping statins because of adverse effects and then restarted, more than 90 percent were able to continue taking the drug long-term. This suggests that the adverse effects were not caused by statins, were mild enough to be tolerable or went away when patients switched to a different statin. Thus, the study concluded, most people who have adverse effects should not give up on statins."
 
Old 06-21-2016, 04:54 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
69,278 posts, read 79,469,982 times
Reputation: 38646
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Recommendations about diet change as new information becomes available. That is the way it should be. There is no magic diet, and for most of us just eating a diet rich in vegetables and fruit with limited red meat and sufficient calories to maintain a healthy weight is the best approach.

The fact is that most people do not have severe side effects from statins, and severe complications are very uncommon.

Statins and Muscle Pain | Berkeley Wellness

In a study of 108,000 people:

"The key finding was that among the 11,000 who reported stopping statins because of adverse effects and then restarted, more than 90 percent were able to continue taking the drug long-term. This suggests that the adverse effects were not caused by statins, were mild enough to be tolerable or went away when patients switched to a different statin. Thus, the study concluded, most people who have adverse effects should not give up on statins."
totally agree: I do think drugs are over prescribed but many are needed or certainly helpful. I have been on statins for about 15 years, the only serious side effect; my legs were killing me. My doctor cut my dosage when back to min, upped by fish oil plus I do eat a lot less red meat and exercise a little more. It has worked fine. No, that magic number isn't a total below 200 like it was, but borders between 200 and 205. We are all happy with that.
 
Old 06-21-2016, 11:25 AM
 
6,997 posts, read 6,635,326 times
Reputation: 5274
The FDA warning for statins came out two years ago. The user complaints have been widely reported since the mid-2000s.

FDA Expands Advice on Statin Risks

In addition to being linked to a higher risk of developing Type 2 diabetes, it's also linked to Parkinson's disease, which is not in the link above.
 
Old 06-21-2016, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
The FDA warning for statins came out two years ago. The user complaints have been widely reported since the mid-2000s.

FDA Expands Advice on Statin Risks

In addition to being linked to a higher risk of developing Type 2 diabetes, it's also linked to Parkinson's disease, which is not in the link above.
For any individual patient the risks of taking a statin have to be balanced against the benefits. For many patients with serious risk of atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease, the scales tip in favor of taking the statin.

Your link to the FDA shows that the risk of liver problems with statins is less than previously thought, people on statins should have their blood sugars monitored, and some people have reported "fuzzy thinking" while on statins. Lovastatin may be more likely to interact with other drugs, which affects its dosing.

None of that says that stains are too dangerous and no one should use them.

At this point, there does not appear to be convincing evidence that statins cause Parkinson's disease. This review actually found a reduced incidence of Parkinson's in statin users.

PLOS ONE: Statin Use and the Risk of Parkinson's Disease: An Updated Meta-Analysis
 
Old 06-21-2016, 12:18 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
17,994 posts, read 17,150,498 times
Reputation: 30131
Sometime I'm going to start a thread about my cholesterol problems. For now, I will just say that I could not tolerate statins due to the pain. I didn't know about taking co-enzyme Q10, which statins deplete and that may have helped, had I known. Does the Q10 also help with the other problems that have been mentioned, like risk of Parkinson's and diabetes?

A few years ago a nurse told me that she'd heard so many horror stories about statins that she would never take them and would advise others not to take them either. She's seen too much first hand.

A strict vegetarian diet for one year did absolutely nothing for my levels. Nothing. I don't eat dairy (allergic) and I don't eat much sugar at all. I tried oatmeal every single day and that didn't do anything either. It's not diet for me.

My last test still showed high cholesterol but I think I'm going to worry more about the triglycerides. I have absolutely no family history of heart disease or high cholesterol and my ratio seems to balance out pretty well. The triglycerides are scary to me though. Maybe high amounts of fish oil rather than the mediocre dose I tried one time.
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Old 06-21-2016, 04:01 PM
 
2,484 posts, read 1,726,689 times
Reputation: 4240
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Sometime I'm going to start a thread about my cholesterol problems. For now, I will just say that I could not tolerate statins due to the pain. I didn't know about taking co-enzyme Q10, which statins deplete and that may have helped, had I known. Does the Q10 also help with the other problems that have been mentioned, like risk of Parkinson's and diabetes?

A few years ago a nurse told me that she'd heard so many horror stories about statins that she would never take them and would advise others not to take them either. She's seen too much first hand.

A strict vegetarian diet for one year did absolutely nothing for my levels. Nothing. I don't eat dairy (allergic) and I don't eat much sugar at all. I tried oatmeal every single day and that didn't do anything either. It's not diet for me.

My last test still showed high cholesterol but I think I'm going to worry more about the triglycerides. I have absolutely no family history of heart disease or high cholesterol and my ratio seems to balance out pretty well. The triglycerides are scary to me though. Maybe high amounts of fish oil rather than the mediocre dose I tried one time.
Triglycerides are a totally different issue from cholesterol. First off, they are produced by the liver, and to some degree by peripheral fat and its interaction with the liver. They have little to do with dietary intake except that heavy alcohol intake, obesity, and heavy simple sugar intake can increase them in some people. Some people's livers, for various reasons, just produce a lot of triglycerides, others don't. Their role in atherosclerosis is minor if at all, unless they are very increased ( >250, with high cholesterol, >300; part of a rare syndrome). Triglycerides alone, greatly increased, are more indicative of fatty liver or similar liver disease including obesity with secondary fatty liver, something of increasing incidence these days. Someone with previously normal triglycerides, who suddenly develops very high triglycerides should be worked up for liver disease - pronto.


Milk "allergy" is 95% of the time not an allergy - it's a a misnomer. It's lactose intolerance, which, by the way, is not unusual, and is 2500 X more common than gluten intolerance. The ADA wants lactose intolerance downplayed (to sell ice cream I guess), while the gluten-free people are getting the television to holler about "gluten sensitivity" at 500 decibels so everybody assumes they are gluten sensitive. It's called "big business."

Last edited by TwinbrookNine; 06-21-2016 at 04:10 PM..
 
Old 06-21-2016, 04:12 PM
 
18,807 posts, read 6,138,018 times
Reputation: 12679
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinbrookNine View Post
Triglycerides are a totally different issue from cholesterol. First off, they are produced by the liver, and to some degree by peripheral fat and its interaction with the liver. They have little to do with dietary intake except that heavy alcohol intake, obesity, and heavy simple sugar intake can increase them in some people. Some people's livers, for various reasons, just produce a lot of triglycerides, others don't. Their role in atherosclerosis is minor if at all, unless they are very increased ( >250, with high cholesterol, >300; part of a rare syndrome). Triglycerides alone, greatly increased, are more indicative of fatty liver or similar liver disease including obesity with secondary fatty liver, something of increasing incidence these days. Someone with previously normal triglycerides, who suddenly develops very high triglycerides should be worked up for liver disease - pronto.


Milk "allergy" is 95% of the time not an allergy - it's a a misnomer. It's lactose intolerance, which, by the way, is not unusual, and is 2500 X more common than gluten intolerance. The ADA wants lactose intolerance downplayed (to sell ice cream I guess), while the gluten-free people are getting the television to holler about "gluten sensitivity" at 500 decibels so everybody assumes they are gluten sensitive. It's called "big business."

Thanks for this explanation on triglycerides....my last test in 2014 showed 100 which is good.
 
Old 06-21-2016, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,498 posts, read 26,102,510 times
Reputation: 26457
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Sometime I'm going to start a thread about my cholesterol problems. For now, I will just say that I could not tolerate statins due to the pain. I didn't know about taking co-enzyme Q10, which statins deplete and that may have helped, had I known. Does the Q10 also help with the other problems that have been mentioned, like risk of Parkinson's and diabetes?

A few years ago a nurse told me that she'd heard so many horror stories about statins that she would never take them and would advise others not to take them either. She's seen too much first hand.

A strict vegetarian diet for one year did absolutely nothing for my levels. Nothing. I don't eat dairy (allergic) and I don't eat much sugar at all. I tried oatmeal every single day and that didn't do anything either. It's not diet for me.

My last test still showed high cholesterol but I think I'm going to worry more about the triglycerides. I have absolutely no family history of heart disease or high cholesterol and my ratio seems to balance out pretty well. The triglycerides are scary to me though. Maybe high amounts of fish oil rather than the mediocre dose I tried one time.
Enzyme CoQ10 may help with muscle pain. There is no clear evidence that statins cause Parkinson's disease and there is some suggesting that they may actually lower the risk. If blood sugars rise on a statin, then that can be treated. It is less likely to happen if attention is paid to diet and exercise and maintaining a normal weight.

Your nurse friend may not be seeing people who do well on statins. That is why it is unwise to base medical decisions on personal anecdotes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinbrookNine View Post
Triglycerides are a totally different issue from cholesterol. First off, they are produced by the liver, and to some degree by peripheral fat and its interaction with the liver. They have little to do with dietary intake except that heavy alcohol intake, obesity, and heavy simple sugar intake can increase them in some people. Some people's livers, for various reasons, just produce a lot of triglycerides, others don't. Their role in atherosclerosis is minor if at all, unless they are very increased ( >250, with high cholesterol, >300; part of a rare syndrome). Triglycerides alone, greatly increased, are more indicative of fatty liver or similar liver disease including obesity with secondary fatty liver, something of increasing incidence these days. Someone with previously normal triglycerides, who suddenly develops very high triglycerides should be worked up for liver disease - pronto.
https://www.broadinstitute.org/news/5292

"A team led by Broad Institute researchers has found that triglycerides - the fats that our bodies burn for fuel - play a causal role in coronary artery disease (CAD), the most common form of heart disease and the leading cause of death in the United States. The study, which leverages new genetic data from a related genome-wide association study, suggests that lowering triglyceride levels through treatment may help reduce the risk of CAD."

The concern with very high levels of TG is pancreatitis more so than liver disease.

Triglycerides are complicated - really complicated. These authors think it may be breakdown products of TG that are involved in atherosclerosis.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/123/20/2292.full

Recommendations to reduce TG:

"Overall, the treatment of elevated triglyceride levels focuses on intensive therapeutic lifestyle change. For example, a 5% to 10% reduction in body weight anticipates a triglyceride-lowering response of 20%. Further offsets in CHO [carbohydrate] calories by reducing added sugars and fructose while increasing unsaturated fat intake may contribute an additional 10% to 20% reduction in triglyceride levels. Elimination of trans fats, restriction of SFA [saturated fat], and increasing consumption of marine-based omega-3 products, coupled with aerobic activity, will further optimize triglyceride-lowering efforts. Taken together, reductions of 50% or more in triglyceride levels may be attained through intensive therapeutic lifestyle change."
 
Old 06-21-2016, 08:24 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
17,994 posts, read 17,150,498 times
Reputation: 30131
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinbrookNine View Post
Triglycerides are a totally different issue from cholesterol. First off, they are produced by the liver, and to some degree by peripheral fat and its interaction with the liver. They have little to do with dietary intake except that heavy alcohol intake, obesity, and heavy simple sugar intake can increase them in some people. Some people's livers, for various reasons, just produce a lot of triglycerides, others don't. Their role in atherosclerosis is minor if at all, unless they are very increased ( >250, with high cholesterol, >300; part of a rare syndrome). Triglycerides alone, greatly increased, are more indicative of fatty liver or similar liver disease including obesity with secondary fatty liver, something of increasing incidence these days. Someone with previously normal triglycerides, who suddenly develops very high triglycerides should be worked up for liver disease - pronto.


Milk "allergy" is 95% of the time not an allergy - it's a a misnomer. It's lactose intolerance, which, by the way, is not unusual, and is 2500 X more common than gluten intolerance. The ADA wants lactose intolerance downplayed (to sell ice cream I guess), while the gluten-free people are getting the television to holler about "gluten sensitivity" at 500 decibels so everybody assumes they are gluten sensitive. It's called "big business."
Thank you for the explanation of tryglycerides.

For the record I DO have a dairy allergy, definitely it is NOT lactose intolerance. This confusion sometimes makes me mad--that it would be so simple if I could just take some lactase. But NO, it is an actual ALLERGY to the protein in dairy products. Verified by by three different allergists over the years and I was told in no uncertain terms to never touch a bit of any dairy product for the rest of my life!

I'm not a big believer in gluten intolerance for so many people who claim to have it either, but when I was first diagnosed with all the food allergies, I was told that grains were a problem for me but not as bad as dairy. I avoided all grains at first (ate quinoa, buckwheat, amaranth, etc.)

I have thought for years that I have something wrong with my liver and my theory is that it was caused many years ago by the early birth control pills that contained high amounts of unopposed estrogen. Those pills were taken off the market, but not before they had made me extremely sick. Decades later, I was exposed to extreme oil fumes from a faulty furnace and that was the last straw. I do think it all affected my liver.

That's why I will, one of these days, try to talk about my issues with either some form of liver disease or the high triglycerides--which, as you say, may be connected. I am not obese, do not eat much sugar--I use stevia instead of sugar in my tea and actually consume very little sugar at all. Doctors don't believe me when I suggest that I could have some sort of liver problem--but it might also account for all my allergies and digestive problems. Also, occasional pain in that area.

But I will address all of that in another thread. Thanks for the information.
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