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Old 09-15-2016, 07:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
So you really think that these female ob/gyns could take up the slack if all women decided they were crazy to see a male doctor? Seriously? I mean YOU think they are crazy...maybe even "loose" women hoping for something sexual with the doc while they're in stirrups, no? If we want to satisfy YOU, then there will be a very long wait for all these women to be served...by women. Give us all a practical solution, will you? Also consider women can't travel unlimited distances to get to a female, etc., etc.
Okay, happily. Currently 52% of obgyns are female, but about 85% of obgyn residents are female. So there are massively more of them coming into the field shortly. Second, nurse practitioners are overwhelmingly female and can easily perform the most common services provided by obgyns. Third, female family practitioners are more than capable enough to perform pap smears, palpate internal structures checking for masses or other irregularities, prescribe birth control, diagnose UTIs, diagnose STDs and insert IUDs, which make up a majority of what obgyns do. This could leave obgyns to take care of pregnant women. See problem solved.

 
Old 09-15-2016, 07:31 PM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,108,282 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Female doctors use chaperones, too.

Mothers in Medicine: Do Female Physicians Need Female Chaperones?

See the comment from the (male) ER doc TheTracker:

"I'm firmly pro-chaperone. It protects the physician. Some patients are crazy. Not a little bit crazy, REALLY crazy. And they will lie and make wild accusations. That is why the chaperone is there. I use a chaperone for ALL "bathing suit" exams -- every rectal, every pelvic, every exam of breasts or testicles, every time."

The chaperone protects both the doctor and the patient.

For OB/GYN docs, the person who is present as the chaperone usually assists in doing the exam and procedures. She doesn't just stand there and stare at the patient.
Okay sure. Think about this, why is the chaperone nearly always a female for female exams, infact most of the time it is mandated this way. If men are just as professional, capable, no creepier, no more likely to assault a patient and no more likely to be sexually attracted to a patient than women, then why couldn't chaperones be men too?
 
Old 09-15-2016, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Central IL
13,351 posts, read 7,121,412 times
Reputation: 31053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iaskwhy View Post
Okay, happily. Currently 52% of obgyns are female, but about 85% of obgyn residents are female. So there are massively more of them coming into the field shortly. Second, nurse practitioners are overwhelmingly female and can easily perform the most common services provided by obgyns. Third, female family practitioners are more than capable enough to perform pap smears, palpate internal structures checking for masses or other irregularities, prescribe birth control, diagnose UTIs, diagnose STDs and insert IUDs, which make up a majority of what obgyns do. This could leave obgyns to take care of pregnant women. See problem solved.
So....I should settle for a female NP over the 2.5% chance of a lecherous male MD? And you don't consider at all the increase in workload for GPs to take over ALL the gyn stuff for ALL their female patients?

Basically we'll just "starve" the male docs right out of the biz? And we will put them ALL out of business based on the 2.5% you "estimate" are lecherous molesters. Actually, based on that, I'm sure at least 4 times that number have impure thoughts and that's almost as bad. Oh, I forgot ALL male docs have those thoughts to ALL females propped up in front of them.

Actually, I want to ask why your concept of male biases falls so squarely and apparently entirely on the shoulders of male ob/gyns? Are there no other professions where male bias comes into play? Or is the only bad impact of male bias sexual in nature? Because there is certainly a preponderance of male physicists. You don't think that preponderance could have negatively shaped the entire direction the discipline has taken? Is there even a 2.5% chance that there could be at least some negative impact due to male bias? Naaaah....we KNOW that the worst thing that could ever be done to women is something naughty and sexual...any intellectual or academic bias has no negative impact on society - just women being the subject of impure thoughts. Women on pedestals, and all that.

Whewww...I'm exhausted...getting ready for bed now...hope I don't have bad dreams from all this.
 
Old 09-15-2016, 10:27 PM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,108,282 times
Reputation: 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63 View Post
So....I should settle for a female NP over the 2.5% chance of a lecherous male MD? And you don't consider at all the increase in workload for GPs to take over ALL the gyn stuff for ALL their female patients?

Basically we'll just "starve" the male docs right out of the biz? And we will put them ALL out of business based on the 2.5% you "estimate" are lecherous molesters. Actually, based on that, I'm sure at least 4 times that number have impure thoughts and that's almost as bad. Oh, I forgot ALL male docs have those thoughts to ALL females propped up in front of them.

Actually, I want to ask why your concept of male biases falls so squarely and apparently entirely on the shoulders of male ob/gyns? Are there no other professions where male bias comes into play? Or is the only bad impact of male bias sexual in nature? Because there is certainly a preponderance of male physicists. You don't think that preponderance could have negatively shaped the entire direction the discipline has taken? Is there even a 2.5% chance that there could be at least some negative impact due to male bias? Naaaah....we KNOW that the worst thing that could ever be done to women is something naughty and sexual...any intellectual or academic bias has no negative impact on society - just women being the subject of impure thoughts. Women on pedestals, and all that.

Whewww...I'm exhausted...getting ready for bed now...hope I don't have bad dreams from all this.
You aren't allowed to move the goalpost. You asked me a question which you thought would be a challenge and I easily gave you a practical sensible solution. Admit your question was dumb and maybe then I will answer some more unrelated questions.

Settle for a female NP? Really? As if it requires med school to take a pap smear. Give me a break.

I never said take over all the gyn stuff. Don't put words in my mouth. Everything that requires a gynecologist would still be taken care of by female gynecologists. Also it wouldn't be a massive increase in work load at all. Is your vagina the same size and complexity as the rest of your body? No, of course not. As others have pointed out as some sort of defense was the fact that a gyn exam doesn't take more than 2 minutes or so. It would add 2 minutes to every exam from your GP. Doesn't that seem like it would actually streamline medicine? Don't you think that could save patients money?

This is slightly off topic but I think there should be less med school requirements for people that want to be GPs. I think they should fall somewhere between NP and MD. Given the fact that computers are so often used for medical diagnosis and when a GP finds a serious problem they always send the patient to a specialist, it seems like the knowledge and training required to be a GP could be less. In turn med school prices could come down quite a bit and the cost of visiting a doctor could be made much more affordable for people.
 
Old 09-16-2016, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Central IL
13,351 posts, read 7,121,412 times
Reputation: 31053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iaskwhy View Post
You aren't allowed to move the goalpost. You asked me a question which you thought would be a challenge and I easily gave you a practical sensible solution. Admit your question was dumb and maybe then I will answer some more unrelated questions.

Settle for a female NP? Really? As if it requires med school to take a pap smear. Give me a break.

I never said take over all the gyn stuff. Don't put words in my mouth. Everything that requires a gynecologist would still be taken care of by female gynecologists. Also it wouldn't be a massive increase in work load at all. Is your vagina the same size and complexity as the rest of your body? No, of course not. As others have pointed out as some sort of defense was the fact that a gyn exam doesn't take more than 2 minutes or so. It would add 2 minutes to every exam from your GP. Doesn't that seem like it would actually streamline medicine? Don't you think that could save patients money?

This is slightly off topic but I think there should be less med school requirements for people that want to be GPs. I think they should fall somewhere between NP and MD. Given the fact that computers are so often used for medical diagnosis and when a GP finds a serious problem they always send the patient to a specialist, it seems like the knowledge and training required to be a GP could be less. In turn med school prices could come down quite a bit and the cost of visiting a doctor could be made much more affordable for people.
Believe me, the female anatomy is VERY complicated, thank you very much...more so than male anatomy...so I only need a female to do the actual examination - then she can pass off the samples to the lab, write it up and hand to a male for the tough stuff?...as long as he doesn't need to do any physical exam in-person? Because that's what would need to happen for your theory to work.

This hearkens back to the day when women had dolls they pointed to so they could show the male physician where the problem was - no physical exams!

BTW - this discussion is PURELY academic. Women will see whoever they want for whatever illogical and irrational reasons they want. THIS is what grinds your gears the most.

And males everywhere (not just docs) will have their fantasies - some will act on them and some not. Women cannot live their lives waiting for the very worst to happen to them....and, a man having lecherous thoughts (common) and not acting on them (rare) is something we already put up with every.single.day.
 
Old 09-16-2016, 08:10 AM
 
2,427 posts, read 784,577 times
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Iaskwhy, if women need to steer clear of male medical staff for any intimate exam or procedure on account men may be sexually attracted to the patient, do you also think women medical staff should not be allowed for any intimate exam or procedure on male patients? Women are sexual beings too and they are going to admire a good looking guy and will certainly take notice of a well endowed guy. I have had many intimate procedures administered by or assisted by women RN's and NP's and can say that virtually all of them have been very professional and not done anything to make the situation more uncomfortable than it had to be. Virtually all, not all. In those few instances where she was inappropriate I did the standard male thing and said nothing, and rather assumed the tough guy this doesn't bother me stance. To do otherwise makes it even more embarrassing for a guy. Women are more apt to speak up. A Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus kind of thing. That's why it is so rare that there are sexual impropriety claims against female medical staff, not because they are never inappropriate. My history includes two bladder cancer surgeries, a year's worth of treatments via catheter administered by females, a couple dozen follow-up cystoscopies all prepped by females, a vasectomy assisted by a female RN, a testicular ultrasound done by a female tech, and an emergency room testicular exam by a female RN so I know that of which I speak. Women medical staff are just as sexual as male medical staff, and virtually all the time they are professional in how they conduct themselves, same as with men. So if it is inappropriate for men to treat women for intimate matters, then should the same go for women treating men? That women press complaints against men more frequently than men press complaints against women is irrelevant. It doesn't change what really happens. I never filed a complaint because that's not what guys do. The reality is odds are nothing inappropriate is going to happen to male or female patients when they have opposite sex medical staff for intimate procedures.
 
Old 09-16-2016, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
1,074 posts, read 1,157,568 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iaskwhy View Post
I posted this before, but here it is again, just for you.


If a women has a choice between a female doctor and a male doctor to treat an issue in a sensitive area, why on earth should they logically choose

1) The doctor that doesn't have the same organs as them to allow them to understand what having these parts feels like.
2) The doctor that is FAR more likely to be sexually attracted to the patient and have inappropriate thoughts about the patient.
3) The doctor that is FAR more likely to do something inappropriate such as sexual assault or something else illegal to the patient.
4) The doctor that is most likely going to need to have another person, a female nurse, in the room in order to make sure they don't do something weird or creepy.
1) That's like saying I shouldn't see a female OB if she's never been pregnant or given birth. Based on your argument, I shouldn't because she's never had those experiences/doesn't understand. Why would I see an oncologist if they've never had cancer? If they haven't experienced cancer, how can they ever understand what I'm going through? Why should I go to a surgeon to repair my ACL if that surgeon has never torn his? I could go on and on. Your argument isn't valid.

2) I don't care if he's sexually attracted to me (again, I doubt it but obviously we are not going to agree here) or if he has inappropriate thoughts if he never acts out on them or tries to fulfill them. If he keeps it professional, he can think anything he wants about me. I'll never know the difference, right? I'm sure providers think some of their clients are entitled, stupid, etc., but they don't let that get in the way of treating them and providing good care.

3) Yes, a male doctor is more likely to do something inappropriate to a female client. You've proven that and I won't argue it. But I can choose to see whomever I want. I'm not going to be made to feel bad or guilty about it just because you disagree with me.

4) Who cares if he has a female nurse in there? It doesn't change anything about the appointment. I've had one female OBGYN and she had a female nurse in the room during exams. Know why? Because the nurse helped her prep the pap kit, set her tools out for her, and generally speaking, made the most "unpleasant" part of the exam go by faster because she was able to assist the doctor. Fine by me.
 
Old 09-16-2016, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
1,074 posts, read 1,157,568 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iaskwhy View Post
I never said take over all the gyn stuff. Don't put words in my mouth. Everything that requires a gynecologist would still be taken care of by female gynecologists. Also it wouldn't be a massive increase in work load at all. Is your vagina the same size and complexity as the rest of your body? No, of course not. As others have pointed out as some sort of defense was the fact that a gyn exam doesn't take more than 2 minutes or so. It would add 2 minutes to every exam from your GP. Doesn't that seem like it would actually streamline medicine? Don't you think that could save patients money?
How would it not be a massive increase in workload if all male OBGYNs suddenly weren't in business anymore? Have you ever sat in the waiting room at an OBGYN office? The waits are already incredibly ridiculous for even routine visits. I typically have to book 2-3 months in advance to get an appointment. If you take those male OBGYNs out of the equation, the waits are going to increase. I'm having a baby in 2 months, so I see my OB all the freaking time now and my visits will only become more frequent.
 
Old 09-16-2016, 01:24 PM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,108,282 times
Reputation: 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephwin View Post
How would it not be a massive increase in workload if all male OBGYNs suddenly weren't in business anymore? Have you ever sat in the waiting room at an OBGYN office? The waits are already incredibly ridiculous for even routine visits. I typically have to book 2-3 months in advance to get an appointment. If you take those male OBGYNs out of the equation, the waits are going to increase. I'm having a baby in 2 months, so I see my OB all the freaking time now and my visits will only become more frequent.
Did you not read what I wrote at all?
 
Old 09-16-2016, 01:42 PM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,108,282 times
Reputation: 1679
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephwin View Post
1) That's like saying I shouldn't see a female OB if she's never been pregnant or given birth. Based on your argument, I shouldn't because she's never had those experiences/doesn't understand. Why would I see an oncologist if they've never had cancer? If they haven't experienced cancer, how can they ever understand what I'm going through? Why should I go to a surgeon to repair my ACL if that surgeon has never torn his? I could go on and on. Your argument isn't valid.
Let's say your doctor had an identical twin that grew up in the same household and behaved identically to your doctor. Your doctor had never had any kids, but their twin had 3. Which would you prefer to help you through pregnancy?

The fact of the matter is that it is much harder to find a oncologist that has had cancer than a female gynecologist. If you go to the doctor complaining of uterine cramps and say "the cramps feel like the cramps I get during my period but a little more sharp", a female gynecologist will instantly know what you mean and what you are experiencing. A male won't have a clue what that feels like.

If you have liver cancer, your oncologist has a liver. If you tear your ACL your surgeon has an ACL. That isn't a direct comparison.

Quote:
2) I don't care if he's sexually attracted to me (again, I doubt it but obviously we are not going to agree here) or if he has inappropriate thoughts if he never acts out on them or tries to fulfill them. If he keeps it professional, he can think anything he wants about me. I'll never know the difference, right? I'm sure providers think some of their clients are entitled, stupid, etc., but they don't let that get in the way of treating them and providing good care.
Are you a nudist? Would you be willing to walk around naked on a nude beach, why or why not?

Quote:
3) Yes, a male doctor is more likely to do something inappropriate to a female client. You've proven that and I won't argue it. But I can choose to see whomever I want. I'm not going to be made to feel bad or guilty about it just because you disagree with me.
I find it interesting how males and females tend to argue differently. Let me get this straight, I am trying to make you feel bad or guilty because I presented facts and logical arguments that disagree with your emotional world view. Am I right?

4) Who cares if he has a female nurse in there? It doesn't change anything about the appointment. I've had one female OBGYN and she had a female nurse in the room during exams. Know why? Because the nurse helped her prep the pap kit, set her tools out for her, and generally speaking, made the most "unpleasant" part of the exam go by faster because she was able to assist the doctor. Fine by me.[/quote]

Why should the nurse always be female? If you want to argue that male should be gynecologists, then why not have male chaperones? Be consistent please.

This practice comes from the time when women were viewed as too stupid to be doctors and weren't allowed to be doctors. So if a woman had female related issues she had to go to a male doctor because she had no other option. Women back then were modest and didn't like the idea of a random male being down there (actually there were times when male doctors wouldn't even look at female genitalia, just feel) so there was a female nurse present to make sure the doctor wasn't being a creep.
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