Excessive Fruit Intake Elevates LDL and Is Therefore A Risk Factor For Ischemic Heart Disease? (blood, diet)
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Please point out in layperson terms where this conclusion is wrong.
The conclusion assumes the following:
1) VLDL degrades to LDL (the bad guy)
2) Excessive fruit intake elevates triglycrides.
3) Labs still measure cholesterol fractions as follows. They measure total cholesterol, HDL ch (the good guy), and triglycerides directly. Then they divide triglycerides by five to arrive at VLDL ch. What remains is LDL ch. So if TC = 200, HDL is 70, and TriG's are 150. Divide 150 by 5 to get 30 VLDL, and the remainder, LDL, is 100. 70+30+100=200.
Ergo, the higher the fruit intake the higher the TriG's and VLDL, and ultimately the higher the LDL, a known risk factor.
This cannot be true but based on the three premises, it appears it is. I know that there are intermediate density lipoprotein bubbles too but labs, at least my lab, still measures/calculates as stated above.
Well remember that fruit has a lot of sugar in it and sugar will elevate your trig levels and quite directly. With my family history, cholesterol and trigs are elevated in many of us and I've had my trigs over 700 before when I was on a sweets binge. Backed off the sweets and it went down very quickly. Did low carb and it went completely to normal in less than a week. I honestly think it has more to do with carbs than fat but that's how my system reacts.
Another thing to keep in mind is that fruit has quite a lot more sugar than what our ancestors ate and many vegetables do too. I'm esp thinking of corn here but others as well. One thing to consider too, is that even in the wild, animals stock up on berries in the late summer and fall to begin the fattening up process to get them thru the winter. I read a little thing about hummingbirds once--they eat all that sugar and overload their liver--it's almost completely white when they begin to migrate, and those little birds fly quite a distance, but once they get where they're going it is back to normal.
Please point out in layperson terms where this conclusion is wrong.
The conclusion assumes the following:
1) VLDL degrades to LDL (the bad guy)
2) Excessive fruit intake elevates triglycrides.
3) Labs still measure cholesterol fractions as follows. They measure total cholesterol, HDL ch (the good guy), and triglycerides directly. Then they divide triglycerides by five to arrive at VLDL ch. What remains is LDL ch. So if TC = 200, HDL is 70, and TriG's are 150. Divide 150 by 5 to get 30 VLDL, and the remainder, LDL, is 100. 70+30+100=200.
Ergo, the higher the fruit intake the higher the TriG's and VLDL, and ultimately the higher the LDL, a known risk factor.
This cannot be true but based on the three premises, it appears it is. I know that there are intermediate density lipoprotein bubbles too but labs, at least my lab, still measures/calculates as stated above.
You have to have some sugar in your diet. Your brain only runs on glucose anyway. It's best to substitute simple surgars/carbs (potato, bread, pasta) with fruit, since you only absorb ~60% of the sugar due to the fiber in fruit.
What exactly defines "excessive fruit intake"? Fructose, which some fruit have in high levels, can raise triglycrides in some people....but not all fruit has high levels of fructose and as such if you're eat a mix of fruits you'd have to eat well over the recommended amount to achieve a high intake of fructose. Excessive fructose, for the vast majority, comes in the form of sugary drinks, processed sweets, etc, for example:
16oz Coke.............................................. 22 grams of fructose
1 Banana, 1 orange, 2 kiwis..................20 grams of fructose**
** I'm including the fact that half of sucrose is fructose, so this is the grams of fructose + 1/2 the grams of sucrose.
So even by consuming just one 16oz soda you exceed the amount of fructose you'd consume by eating 3~4 servings of mixed fruit.
In any case, I don't think there is anything particularly faulty what what you're suggesting other than the fact that you'd have to consume a truly large amount of fruit to exceed the fructose intake of the average American (which is primarily derived from sugary drinks, sweets, etc). Also, while a fruit based diet may elevate triglycrides it may have other factors that lower ones risk of heart disease.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn
You have to have some sugar in your diet. Your brain only runs on glucose anyway. It's best to substitute simple surgars/carbs (potato, bread, pasta) with fruit, since you only absorb ~60% of the sugar due to the fiber in fruit.
We have no dietary need for sugar, we can derive glucose from complex carbohydrates. Where did you get the idea that we only absorb 60% of the sugars in fruit? Fiber primarily slows the digestion of carbohydrates, it doesn't greatly reduce its absorption.
What exactly defines "excessive fruit intake"? Fructose, which some fruit have in high levels, can raise triglycrides in some people....but not all fruit has high levels of fructose and as such if you're eat a mix of fruits you'd have to eat well over the recommended amount to achieve a high intake of fructose. Excessive fructose, for the vast majority, comes in the form of sugary drinks, processed sweets, etc, for example:
16oz Coke.............................................. 22 grams of fructose
1 Banana, 1 orange, 2 kiwis..................20 grams of fructose**
** I'm including the fact that half of sucrose is fructose, so this is the grams of fructose + 1/2 the grams of sucrose.
So even by consuming just one 16oz soda you exceed the amount of fructose you'd consume by eating 3~4 servings of mixed fruit.
In any case, I don't think there is anything particularly faulty what what you're suggesting other than the fact that you'd have to consume a truly large amount of fruit to exceed the fructose intake of the average American (which is primarily derived from sugary drinks, sweets, etc). Also, while a fruit based diet may elevate triglycrides it may have other factors that lower ones risk of heart disease.
Hear what you're saying and realize that my premises are probably oversimplified. It's just that it's surprising that cholesterol-free and essentially fat-free foodstuffs could theoretically elevate LDL.
Calvert Hall, stepka above already said it: when you get more than 55-60% of calories from carbohydrates, this may elevate your blood triglyceride levels.
Calvert Hall, stepka above already said it: when you get more than 55-60% of calories from carbohydrates, this may elevate your blood triglyceride levels.
It is not that this will happen in everyone who eats as much fruits, but it can happen in some people.
I'm well aware of the simple carb - TriG connection and know that elevated TriG in and of themselves are a separate risk factor.
What I have a hard time getting my head around is the apparent link between excess carbs and LDL. For the past 45 yrs., the medicos have been telling us that to keep LDL levels down, avoid sat. fat and cholesterol. With few exceptions, sat fat is found in animal-based foods and I'm not aware of any non-animal-based foods that contain cholesterol.
I can't explain exactly why high carbohydrate intake results in high blood LDL levels, but one observation was that people with high LDL who cut down saturated fats and replace them with sugars get even higher LDL levels.
What's Excessive? Fruit is a natural main food for many species, including humans.
Last edited by Sacman; 11-18-2013 at 07:01 PM..
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