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Old 07-24-2016, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,526 posts, read 26,146,877 times
Reputation: 26519

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Quote:
Originally Posted by baileyvpotter View Post
An investigative report and a data base "Dollars for Docs" shows that there are some who have
a very nice relationship with big pharma.
Article below:
How to Use ProPublica?s ?Dollars for Docs? Database - Columbia Journalism Review

Dollars for Docs:
https://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/
If you will note, three of the highest paid in your link were doctors who started a company that was subsequently bought out by another company, including Dr. Karen Underwood.

Most of the doctors received small amounts for either food served at a meal where a drug was discussed or for presenting the information on a drug at such a meeting. Some are compensated for participating in research studies. In other words, they are compensated for doing work. Do you get paid for doing work?

If you think a doc is going to choose a drug to prescribe based solely on a $15 meal and a single presentation, you are wrong.

In addition, insurance companies determine which drugs they will pay for. By requiring pre-authorization and higher co-pays for newer drugs they effectively prevent some patients from using them, even when there may be advantages for the patient from the new drug.

 
Old 07-24-2016, 10:54 AM
 
8,666 posts, read 2,406,950 times
Reputation: 8213
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

If you think a doc is going to choose a drug to prescribe based solely on a $15 meal and a single presentation, you are wrong..
So the study that shows TWICE the rate of prescriptions is completely wrong and off-base?

We have to be careful here with words.

Let me make it very simple.

Doctors are Human Beings.
Human Beings are influenced by peers, by gifts, by money and by many other things.
Doctors who have been given meals, tickets, swagg, access to motivational speakers and professional persuaders, etc. ARE influenced and that influence results in certain drugs, brands and procedures being put forward to their patients.

I don't blame the docs. It's capitalism...pure and simple. There is much less money in a healthy populace. The medical corporations don't always sit around thinking "we will kill people and make them sicker" - but, on the other hand, they don't upset the status quo which often is "let's make sure air, food and water are impure and that people don't have the full knowledge or ability to stay healthy because we would lose a trillion dollars plus per year if our medical system was built about health rather than money"...

In other words, it's a sick system.
I suppose next you will be telling us that the tens of millions that Cancer Centers of America spends scaring patients (or giving them false hope or leading them to improper conclusions) doesn't affect people either? If so, they must be the dumbest corporation on the face of the planet to spend that much money trying to lure patients to their corporate hospitals.

Pls read - tip of the iceberg:
Forbes Welcome

"It sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory: a secretive businessman founds a for-profit medical center to treat cancer. His hospitals offer conventional treatments but also sell highly questionable, unscientific treatments to vulnerable patients. These treatments help to increase profits. The businessman uses the profits from his cancer hospitals to support his favorite right-wing causes. Patients have no idea that the fees they pay for treatment help support these causes.

It may sound unbelievable, but itís true. "

Perhaps you are some kind of partner to this (in the field)?

Or, maybe you need to think about why folks like Rick Scott, Bill Frist and Romney become some of the most powerful folks in our country? Dumb luck? Or the medical system?
 
Old 07-24-2016, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,526 posts, read 26,146,877 times
Reputation: 26519
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
You are wrong. Please read the article.
Rx pizza: 1 free meal can sway doctor prescribing

"Doctors who received a free meal sponsored by makers of these drugs were more likely to prescribe that drug than doctors who received no free meals. The strongest link was for Pfizer's Pristiq: doctors who received one Pfizer-sponsored meal were two times more likely to prescribe that drug than doctors who received no freebies"

Are you intentionally trying to misinform people - or did you not know?

A 100% increase - or more - just from a free meal.

A dozen doughnuts probably moves the needle even more.
Over what time interval did that 100% increase happen? Was it a situation of trying a new product to see if it worked better? Was the increased prescribing sustained over time? Are doctors who are interested in keeping up with new options and more likely to use them also more likely to attend the presentations where meals are served? In other words, are the docs who attend dinner meetings different from those who do not?

For example, I know a psychiatrist who likes to go to those dinner meetings. He often already knows as much or more about the drug than the presenter and really grills the speaker. Because he treats mostly very sick patients he is aggressive about using new drugs to see if they benefit patients for whom existing drugs (and intensive psychotherapy) are not working. If the new drugs do not help his patients he will not continue to use them. If insurance companies price them too high, he cannot use them.

Could it be that docs who do not prescribe new drugs are just tired of trying to get them for their patients and have given up on it?
 
Old 07-24-2016, 11:08 AM
 
4,627 posts, read 10,511,655 times
Reputation: 10324
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
So the study that shows TWICE the rate of prescriptions is completely wrong and off-base?

We have to be careful here with words.

Let me make it very simple.

Doctors are Human Beings.
Human Beings are influenced by peers, by gifts, by money and by many other things.
Doctors who have been given meals, tickets, swagg, access to motivational speakers and professional persuaders, etc. ARE influenced and that influence results in certain drugs, brands and procedures being put forward to their patients.

I don't blame the docs. It's capitalism...pure and simple. There is much less money in a healthy populace. The medical corporations don't always sit around thinking "we will kill people and make them sicker" - but, on the other hand, they don't upset the status quo which often is "let's make sure air, food and water are impure and that people don't have the full knowledge or ability to stay healthy because we would lose a trillion dollars plus per year if our medical system was built about health rather than money"...

In other words, it's a sick system.
I suppose next you will be telling us that the tens of millions that Cancer Centers of America spends scaring patients (or giving them false hope or leading them to improper conclusions) doesn't affect people either? If so, they must be the dumbest corporation on the face of the planet to spend that much money trying to lure patients to their corporate hospitals.

Pls read - tip of the iceberg:
Forbes Welcome

"It sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory: a secretive businessman founds a for-profit medical center to treat cancer. His hospitals offer conventional treatments but also sell highly questionable, unscientific treatments to vulnerable patients. These treatments help to increase profits. The businessman uses the profits from his cancer hospitals to support his favorite right-wing causes. Patients have no idea that the fees they pay for treatment help support these causes.

It may sound unbelievable, but itís true. "

Perhaps you are some kind of partner to this (in the field)?

Or, maybe you need to think about why folks like Rick Scott, Bill Frist and Romney become some of the most powerful folks in our country? Dumb luck? Or the medical system?
Let me make it very simple for you...

Doctors are no longer given meals, tickets, swag, money or access to motivational speakers and haven't been for years...

So yes lets "careful here with words" particularly words that are completely FALSE
 
Old 07-24-2016, 11:22 AM
 
18,891 posts, read 6,176,358 times
Reputation: 12702
While seeing an integrative rheumy after hip replacement, she helped me with the mess I was now living with. We discussed Celebrex and I asked about a sample and she tried to get me sample but the sales reps didn't come to visit her. She could never come thru for me, so it's a good thing anyway, the possible side effects and cost of the drug kept me from pursuing it further.

Now too bad supp companies don't offer a 2-3 month supply for a customer to try, but THEY DO NOT, so we buy and give it a good 3 month trial, that's what I usually do, plus I muscle test and dowse so I have a good handle on what my body needs/can handle.

But the supp companies TAKE BACK what we can't use or what is not helping us. Try that with a pharma drug....eat them or throw them away if they are not for your body.
 
Old 07-24-2016, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,526 posts, read 26,146,877 times
Reputation: 26519
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
So the study that shows TWICE the rate of prescriptions is completely wrong and off-base?

We have to be careful here with words.

Let me make it very simple.

Doctors are Human Beings.
Human Beings are influenced by peers, by gifts, by money and by many other things.
Doctors who have been given meals, tickets, swagg, access to motivational speakers and professional persuaders, etc. ARE influenced and that influence results in certain drugs, brands and procedures being put forward to their patients.

I don't blame the docs. It's capitalism...pure and simple. There is much less money in a healthy populace. The medical corporations don't always sit around thinking "we will kill people and make them sicker" - but, on the other hand, they don't upset the status quo which often is "let's make sure air, food and water are impure and that people don't have the full knowledge or ability to stay healthy because we would lose a trillion dollars plus per year if our medical system was built about health rather than money"...

In other words, it's a sick system.
I suppose next you will be telling us that the tens of millions that Cancer Centers of America spends scaring patients (or giving them false hope or leading them to improper conclusions) doesn't affect people either? If so, they must be the dumbest corporation on the face of the planet to spend that much money trying to lure patients to their corporate hospitals.

Pls read - tip of the iceberg:
Forbes Welcome

"It sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory: a secretive businessman founds a for-profit medical center to treat cancer. His hospitals offer conventional treatments but also sell highly questionable, unscientific treatments to vulnerable patients. These treatments help to increase profits. The businessman uses the profits from his cancer hospitals to support his favorite right-wing causes. Patients have no idea that the fees they pay for treatment help support these causes.

It may sound unbelievable, but itís true. "

Perhaps you are some kind of partner to this (in the field)?

Or, maybe you need to think about why folks like Rick Scott, Bill Frist and Romney become some of the most powerful folks in our country? Dumb luck? Or the medical system?
To answer your last question first, Scott et al. got where they did because they are businessmen.

I do not buy the argument that doctors want to keep people sick. Why on earth would they want to kill them? No money in that. Look at the treatment guidelines for any chronic medical problem, such as high blood pressure or diabetes, and you will see that the very first thing to be done is lifestyle changes. Who has to implement those changes? The patient. The same patient who starts crying about "fat shaming" if his doctor tells him he is obese and needs to lose weight. Physicians are stuck with dealing with what patients for the most part do to themselves.

Cancer Treatment Centers of America does indeed provide alt med woo. Why? Patients want it and are willing to pay for it, even if insurance does not cover it. If I had my way, all the alt med folks would have to provide evidence that what they sell does something useful, from "supps" to chiropractic to acupuncture.

If you do not like what any businessman spends his profits on, do not patronize his business. That one is easy.
 
Old 07-24-2016, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
13,193 posts, read 7,417,828 times
Reputation: 27300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi60 View Post
It is no secret that doctors have a financial interest in selling their patients expensive new drugs, now many made in china, so we avoid them as much as possible, regardless of the marketing media non sense. They make billions by scaring people into thinking that have some magic cure which in some cases will make you worse. Nothing new, it has been around for centuries.
No they don't. Doctors have no financial stake in their patients taking expensive medications at all. I am so tired of hearing this myth repeated, because that's what it is: a myth. Doctors do NOT get kickbacks from insurance companies or drug companies for prescribing new drugs; they get samples of the drug, and that's all. It is their decision whether or not to offer the patient a sample. It is actually to the doctor's and patient's benefit to keep them on cheaper generic drugs because they are cheaper and more established. They only switch patients to new drugs if the older ones aren't working for them for some reason.

Case in point: I am an epilepsy patient and was on a generic version of a drug that worked fine for a while, but it began giving me a lot of dizziness, fatigue, and double vision. My neurologist prescribed me a brand new, once a day, time released version of the drug, that is much more expensive for me but doesn't cause those side effects. I am happy paying 4x more for the new drug as the generic because it works so much better for me. Through offering me samples that he was not compensated for, my doctor was able to introduce me to a new medication that is far superior than my old generic that I had to take three times a day.

And your idea that American pharmaceuticals are made in China is wrong too. The vast majority of American drugs are manufactured in the United States because of FDA restrictions. They are also sometimes manufactured in Canada.
 
Old 07-24-2016, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,526 posts, read 26,146,877 times
Reputation: 26519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
No they don't. Doctors have no financial stake in their patients taking expensive medications at all. I am so tired of hearing this myth repeated, because that's what it is: a myth. Doctors do NOT get kickbacks from insurance companies or drug companies for prescribing new drugs; they get samples of the drug, and that's all. It is their decision whether or not to offer the patient a sample. It is actually to the doctor's and patient's benefit to keep them on cheaper generic drugs because they are cheaper and more established. They only switch patients to new drugs if the older ones aren't working for them for some reason.

Case in point: I am an epilepsy patient and was on a generic version of a drug that worked fine for a while, but it began giving me a lot of dizziness, fatigue, and double vision. My neurologist prescribed me a brand new, once a day, time released version of the drug, that is much more expensive for me but doesn't cause those side effects. I am happy paying 4x more for the new drug as the generic because it works so much better for me. Through offering me samples that he was not compensated for, my doctor was able to introduce me to a new medication that is far superior than my old generic that I had to take three times a day.

And your idea that American pharmaceuticals are made in China is wrong too. The vast majority of American drugs are manufactured in the United States because of FDA restrictions. They are also sometimes manufactured in Canada.
Your experience is common and one that those who reject all prescription medications refuse to accept. All those folks who are doing well on their medications do not go online to talk about it. To the alt med folks it seems they do not exist.

However, many American drugs are made in China. The pill may be made in the US but the drug used in it came from China.

US manufacturers do test the raw product before using it, and the FDA has sanctioned Chinese companies that delivered substandard ingredients.

The FDA does monitor foreign drug makers, on site and here. The problem is not enough personnel to do it as frequently as is done for domestic companies.
 
Old 07-25-2016, 06:36 AM
 
5,653 posts, read 3,202,909 times
Reputation: 6635
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedevilz View Post
How did that benefit the MD?

It benefitted your husband NOT the doc....

Getting samples to GIVE patients is hardly a "financial incentive" for the MD
It benefits the Big Pharm. Yes, doctors get samples which another poster said they cannot get. We heard there is a generic version of Crestor coming out so it would certainly benefit the brand name pharm. to push their's to doctors to prescribe this instead of the generic.

Business.
 
Old 07-25-2016, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,526 posts, read 26,146,877 times
Reputation: 26519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
It benefits the Big Pharm. Yes, doctors get samples which another poster said they cannot get. We heard there is a generic version of Crestor coming out so it would certainly benefit the brand name pharm. to push their's to doctors to prescribe this instead of the generic.

Business.
If there is a generic the docs will prescribe it. They do not make money from the drugs they prescribe, and the insurance companies want the patient to use the cheapest option.
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