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Old 02-05-2018, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Rivendell
455 posts, read 309,519 times
Reputation: 1199

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
I think I wrote previously about getting a checkup recently and the doctor telling me if I don't take statin drugs I will probably die soon. That was about 2 months ago, and I'm still alive!

The doctor was an overweight woman, obviously not a health nut. She didn't ask about my lifestyle, and didn't try to figure out why my cholesterol was suddenly 318, after always being normal. The blood tests also showed low vitamin D, which seemed odd since I get a lot of sunlight.

On my way home, I wondered how much time I had left. Then, of course, as soon as I got home I spent time with Dr. Google.

The only thing I could think of that changed in my life between my last blood test and this one was that I took Chinese herbal medicine for 8 months. I have skin problems and an acupuncturist told me the herbal medicine would cure any kind of skin problems (no, it won't).

I read that Chinese pharmacies have been known to add steroids (prednisone, cortisone, etc.) to their formulas so patients will feel better and think the herbs are curing them.

Steroids can greatly improve certain symptoms, but they are terrible for your health. And, it turns out, they can raise cholesterol and lower vitamin D!

So I decided I would wait a couple of months, and go to a different doctor and get tested again. And I got the results today.

First of all, he said my blood tests were great, everything was normal (except Lyme disease, which I had long ago and apparently was never cured, but doesn't bother me).

He said my cholesterol is great, no problem at all. It's still high, but mostly because the HDL is extremely high. And the LDL came down 25 points in 2 months.

So I guess I am slowly recovering from the Chinese herbs.

in other threads, some people told me how wonderful doctors are and they would never prescribe drugs carelessly, or give someone statins for no good reason.

That has not been my experience, or the experience of people I know, or that I have read about. And now I have my own experience. Many doctors are extremely careless about prescribing drugs, especially statins.


I think every American is on statins now. I got an interesting perspective on it from various doctors and nurses.

So on the American side I have doctors telling me I must take statins and they will help me live longer. My cholesterol was at about 210 or so when I asked my doc, hey what if I go on a low fat diet, can I try that first? She said ok and for about 2 - 3 months I ate all these low fat things. I thought I was doing awesomely and went back to check on my progress, sure that I would have normal total cholesterol levels.

MY. Cholesterol. WENT. UP!!!!!!!!!

I was like

When I was pregnant my cholesterol was 325. I nursed so couldn't take any statins and for over a year it stayed at about 325. So then later we move to Canada.

My cardiologist there (I have PVCs and high blood pressure) was like, statins are bad for you, I want you to reduce the dosage you're taking. My sister in law who is a nurse told me statins are bad as well and low fat makes your cholesterol go up. Gee thanks, I found that out the hard way.

So for another year or two I was not on statins.

Came back to America. Guess what? Got told I should take statins again.

I really don't think they know what they're doing anymore. I think also SUGAR is the problem because it causes inflammation which then raises cholesterol, so sugar is what we need to stop eating. It's just that sugar is in EVERYTHING.

Now I don't do low fat but try to restrict sugar and carbs and that helps me lose weight and will help with inflammation.

I do think statins are bad for us but we can't seem to get cholesterol down with low fat eating, either. Plus we do need cholesterol for our bodies to work right.

Oh and this all was over the course of the past 15 years and for the record I'm still alive.
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Old 02-05-2018, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,485 posts, read 26,089,700 times
Reputation: 26440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
I disagree. I am one of those people who prefer to NOT know what potential side effects are until I have taken a medication and given it a chance to work. Now, I take NOTHING without knowing ahead of time. Yes, some people CAN convince themselves within 5 minutes of taking a new prescription that they are suffering from one of the deadly side effects. But this does not, and SHOULD not, discount the truth that people ARE suffering devastating and life destroying effects from statin drugs, with doctors not only just ignoring or "pooh-poohing" their complaints, but not officially reporting it as they are required to do. I had numerous discussions with my doctor, reporting the side effects I was experiencing. Guess what? He NEVER reported it to FAERS. As a matter of fact, they had no records of him EVER reporting patients claiming adverse reactions during his 19 years in practice. Doctors prefer receiving all those nice kickbacks, perks and free vacations to Fiji from Big Pharma. I have news for you, evil and greedy people can be found everywhere, including in the medical profession, a profession which psychology studies and statistics have shown actually has a high percentage of those with sociopathic and narcissistic personality disorders. Whether you read the side effects ahead of time or not, either way you can't win. If you did read them you caused the problem in your head. If you didn't read them you are at fault for not being aware ahead of time. Its a lose/lose for the injured patient, and a win/win for irresponsible doctors & Big Pharma.

YOU can "pooh-pooh" it all you want, but the facts are out there that doctors DO NOT report when patients come to them with concerns over adverse reactions, and many doctors, in their arrogance, treat the patients like idiot children and completely ignore what they are suffering. Your total inability to accept or believe that doctors do act in this way tells me that you are either 1) very ignorant, 2) very arrogant (and possibly a doctor), or 3) believe that doctors are gods instead of human, so therefore can never be or do wrong. It is people with this type of mindset who are part of the problem causing the permanent living hell some of us now have to endure for the rest of our lives.

This is just one of many articles by my now deceased friend, Dr. Duane Graveline,(Dr. means DOCTOR!), who died from the effects of statin drug damage. He spent years trying to reverse the damages from statin drugs. https://spacedoc.com/articles/medwat...statin-reports

Also, another article that talks about doctors not reporting... https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.9304f0764b61

And another: Why Do We Doctors So Often Fail To See Symptoms Are Drug Side Effects? | CommonHealth

Failing To Report Severe Drug Side Effects: A National Embarrassment... https://www.forbes.com/sites/luketim.../#76d98ba4251d

Instead of blaming the patient, who is actually the victim here, blame those who are supposed to be the experts ENTRUSTED (that's a major thing... ENTRUSTED!) with our health care and our LIVES! If you want to keep thinking and believing that doctors and Big Pharma are perfect god-like creatures, you go right ahead. Some of us know better, from personal painful experience.

FACT... Statin drugs are DANGEROUS. For some, they cause permanent irreversible damage, for others they are fatal. Stop insulting those who have been harmed by trying to invalidate them as human beings.
Your experience does not invalidate that of people who take statins with no problems at all, and there are many of us. DH has been on a statin since the first one came out.

The nocebo effect is real. If you want to discredit the study about it please tell us what is wrong with it.

I have allergic reactions to a couple of antibiotics. Taking them could be dangerous for me person. That does not mean no one should take them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
So this invalidates the permanent, irreversible damage they have done to me? And how do you know they are not suffering side effects? Are you in the doctor's office with each and every one? Are you aware that they have NOT reported side effects, or that they HAVE reported them and the doctor has convinced them that the problem isn't the statins, but instead a NEW health issue that they are now suffering, like Type 2 Diabetes, ALS, MS, MD, etc...., which statins cause or mimic?

You cannot, with any validity, categorically claim that millions take statins with no side effects at all. To claim so is the height of arrogance and ignorance.
The fact is that the majority of people who take statins do not have serious side effects from them. There are literally millions like DH and me. Those folks are just not posting on the Internet about their positive experience with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraG View Post
And we should have empathy for the people who do have serious side effects.
Yes, we should. That does not negate the fact that most people do not have serious side effects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
I just quit a newly minted young dr who insisted that I take statins. I've tried statins twice before and didn't like the muscle pain. Now I know that co-enzyme Q10 is supposed to help. I didn't know that back then.

I just had my first appointment with my latest dr and he turned out to be wonderful. He listened, spent time with me, was open minded, and he'd like me to be on statins but it's up to me. I might try a low dose of red yeast rice again. It is a statin but and when I took it long ago, it lowered my cholesterol a lot. This dr said that would be fine as there's quite a bit of research on it. I will take co-enzyme Q10 along with it though.

The other day I was talking to an elderly woman whose cholesterol is 300 and she says she refuses to take statins. Her brother's cholesterol was 600! He wouldn't take statins either and he died, but he died of cancer.

I've heard terrible first hand stories about the ill effects of statins. One time when I had a visiting nurse after surgery, I asked her about statins and she advised me to not take them--too dangerous.
If you do take red yeast rice you will be taking a statin. Just because it is OTC does not mean it does not have the same risk as a prescription statin.

The CoQ10 is a good idea.

It is human nature to share bad news. Those who are not having problems are less likely to mention it.
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Old 02-05-2018, 08:18 PM
 
18,775 posts, read 6,138,018 times
Reputation: 12663
Camilla, they are all confused and going back and forth like a yoyo. I never bought into the low fat, non fat nonsense. I don't eat gobs of fat but I eat fats.

I've cut WAY back on sugars and cut out all breads, except a personal pizza when I get the craving.
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Old 02-05-2018, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Rivendell
455 posts, read 309,519 times
Reputation: 1199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
Some years ago, my older doctor retired, and sold his practice to a younger guy. So I went to see the younger guy for something minor. I was about 40 at the time.

First thing, he takes my BP. 203 over 115! I felt this was unusual, as it had never beeen even modestly high before that, and this seemed really high to me. He decided to schedule some tests, and wrote me a script for about $200 of tests (cheaper, back then). After the visit, he sent his nurse in, to re-take my BP. Same thing - 203 over 115.

On the way home, I stopped at the ER of a local hospital, where they had a "free BP' policy for the community. A nurse took it, and found 115 over 75 (more my usual) - and I was really riled up by then! I told her what had happened, so she disconnected a machine from another patient and monitored me with that for a few minutes, Same low result.

Now, I know that sometimes patients can have anxiety when first entering a doctor's office. But I never have; plus his nurse re-took it later. Why the high reading? Either his BP machine was "off" (which you'd think he'd notice after awhile, duh!), or he was trying to prescribe procedures for the new patients he'd bought. I tore up his script.

Oh, and me? I'll be 70 in 2 months, and I'm fine!
You know there is one doc I have seen and one time I went to them and their nurse took my BP and it was like 190 or something and the second time it was like 200 and it's NEVER been that high. I am on meds for my blood pressure ffs. It's usually like 110's/70's or 120's/80's. But at THIS doctor it's always crazy high, not with any other doctor.

So I'm thinking that she was using a small arm cuff because if you have an arm circumference larger than a certain diameter, you have to use a cuff designed for your larger arm. If they put a "standard" cuff on you, your blood pressure will look REALLY high when it's not actually that high.

Everybody make sure they're taking your BP with the correct sized cuff!
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:42 AM
 
Location: McAllen, TX
2,901 posts, read 1,930,128 times
Reputation: 3492
I quit Statins on my own after developing side effects after 10 years. 3+ years on a Ketogenic diet normalized my numbers, routinely under 180 total. Fat's are not necessarily the cause of high cholesterol and for that matter cholesterol itself is not as bad as people make it out to be. Sugar and refined carbohydrates will raise your cholesterol more than fats and the combination of both is the worst. More hype from the doctors and many still have not got the memo. It's already proven, cholesterol by itself does not cause heart disease. The body on it's own produces 3000mg of cholesterol daily and it is essential for human life including brain function. The brain itself is made up of fat tissues. Many many cases of heart disease exist in people with low cholesterol. I could go on and on, and I don't think the reason doctors over prescribe Statins is Big Pharma and profits. Not any more it isn't. The patents have expired on most statins. Many doctor's are just used to doing the same thing over and over and never think outside the box. Food IS medicine and doctors fail to see that over and over.
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Old 02-06-2018, 09:22 AM
 
Location: ☀️ SWFL ⛱ 🌴
2,101 posts, read 1,421,538 times
Reputation: 7492
Iím on statins currently. My doctor advised me to use them two years ago, but allowed me time to make lifestyle changes. This past fall, after two years, we agreed that wasnít working for me. I started on statins, taking only three pills a week, every other day. Twelve weeks later my cholesterol is in the middle of normal range. Now Iím on two pills a week and will see how that goes. I havenít given up on a better lifestyle yet. Iím lucky to have a doctor that works with me.
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Old 02-06-2018, 10:00 AM
 
18,775 posts, read 6,138,018 times
Reputation: 12663
Quote:
Originally Posted by gguerra View Post
I quit Statins on my own after developing side effects after 10 years. 3+ years on a Ketogenic diet normalized my numbers, routinely under 180 total. Fat's are not necessarily the cause of high cholesterol and for that matter cholesterol itself is not as bad as people make it out to be. Sugar and refined carbohydrates will raise your cholesterol more than fats and the combination of both is the worst. More hype from the doctors and many still have not got the memo. It's already proven, cholesterol by itself does not cause heart disease. The body on it's own produces 3000mg of cholesterol daily and it is essential for human life including brain function. The brain itself is made up of fat tissues. Many many cases of heart disease exist in people with low cholesterol. I could go on and on, and I don't think the reason doctors over prescribe Statins is Big Pharma and profits. Not any more it isn't. The patents have expired on most statins. Many doctor's are just used to doing the same thing over and over and never think outside the box. Food IS medicine and doctors fail to see that over and over.
Good post, so many fear cholesterol as it's been instilled in our minds by "you know who" for about the last 20 yrs or so. Good to hear you took control.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:02 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
9,145 posts, read 6,332,122 times
Reputation: 12709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
So this invalidates the permanent, irreversible damage they have done to me? And how do you know they are not suffering side effects? Are you in the doctor's office with each and every one? Are you aware that they have NOT reported side effects, or that they HAVE reported them and the doctor has convinced them that the problem isn't the statins, but instead a NEW health issue that they are now suffering, like Type 2 Diabetes, ALS, MS, MD, etc...., which statins cause or mimic?

You cannot, with any validity, categorically claim that millions take statins with no side effects at all. To claim so is the height of arrogance and ignorance.
Even if it's true? I'm one of those millions (and I know others as well,) who have taken statins for years (albeit a low dose in my case) with no side effects that I can oberve.

I'm sorry for your misfortunes and health problems you believe to be due to your taking statins for a time, and I even agree with you about statin prescribing policies, but it's up to each patient to do his/her due diligence about statins and his/her risk of cardiac disease/stroke, discuss and come to an agreement with his/her own provider regarding what's best for him/her.. But your continued rants on the Absolute and Unconditional evil of statins, as well as your ongoing personal attacks on those who express opinions and state facts and findings about statins not to your liking, makes you come across as unhinged on the topic, and does nothing for your credibility.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:41 AM
 
18,775 posts, read 6,138,018 times
Reputation: 12663
T.L. There are many who have their "rants" and beliefs on many issues here. Should we single out one and not others? Personally I have not seen Cyanna here on these groups in all the time I've here here. What about fairness.
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Old 02-06-2018, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,361,547 times
Reputation: 1570
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
I just quit a newly minted young dr who insisted that I take statins. I've tried statins twice before and didn't like the muscle pain. Now I know that co-enzyme Q10 is supposed to help. I didn't know that back then.

I just had my first appointment with my latest dr and he turned out to be wonderful. He listened, spent time with me, was open minded, and he'd like me to be on statins but it's up to me. I might try a low dose of red yeast rice again. It is a statin but and when I took it long ago, it lowered my cholesterol a lot. This dr said that would be fine as there's quite a bit of research on it. I will take co-enzyme Q10 along with it though.

The other day I was talking to an elderly woman whose cholesterol is 300 and she says she refuses to take statins. Her brother's cholesterol was 600! He wouldn't take statins either and he died, but he died of cancer.

I've heard terrible first hand stories about the ill effects of statins. One time when I had a visiting nurse after surgery, I asked her about statins and she advised me to not take them--too dangerous.
The fact is that your body NEEDS cholesterol. Once you start stripping your body of it you also take away the body's ability to create Coq-10, vitamin K2, B vitamins, etc..., which help to PREVENT calcium buildup in the heart and arteries.
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